You changed the theme to Googly eyes 🤪

Do you think this is a joke, Damien?

Do you remember your thirtieth birthday at Bond St, when you were drunk and crying and I stayed and comforted you? It's my thirtieth birthday in six days, funnily enough, and you are trying to have me wrongfully imprisoned in order that you and Oli don't have to bear the costs of your own choices, choices that were not mine and that I did not benefit by. What the fuck kind of friend are you? Answer me. I feel you owe me an answer.

I think this is an appalling way for him to behave, frankly

And I don't accept that he can do this and then throw up his hands and say "ta-da, no contact!" and turn me into the wrongdoer

At least please let him know that if he doesn't testify voluntarily, I will press to have him summoned

Also I made the right decision earlier, it seems

I feel one does not repeatedly say "I'm your friend, Sam, you can trust me" while lying and then evade honest testimony and block your friend of 12 years whom you are lying about

This is morally degenerate conduct

And I will make sure the stain of what he is trying to get away with clings to him for the wretched remainder of his mortal allotment

What a fucking disgrace

Anyway, for now, @Steve Cherny, @Sam Cherny, you can hopefully draw the obvious inference from Damien's sudden-onset courthouse allergy

For the record, this is what I said to Damien on the 27th, leading up to my visit:

I put it to you that if I had gone there to attack Oli or your family, I would probably not have asked Damien to accompany me, and he knew that perfectly well – he has deleted his messages with Oli from that day, claimed total amnesia about what they discussed, has refused to testify, and has now blocked me in an unsuccessful effort to evade scrutiny

The point of this is to preserve the lie that was told to you

And @Peter De Havilland, there is no amount of olanzapine in the world that can stop you from putting two and two together here

I am branching out into the exciting world of Facebook advertising

^ i guess he's gone off to draft another Magnitsky Act in my name

nah, jokes aside, obviously i am not Magnitsky – the police have been lovely to me and brought me biscuits and I wrote them a 5-star Yelp review that most of you have read but here you go in case you haven't: https://m.yelp.com/biz/stoke-newington-police-station-london – but that doesn't make it any less disgraceful what Damien and Oli are still trying to get away with

also, biscuits or no biscuits, there is something peculiarly awful about sitting in a cell, listening to all the local drug dealers banging on their cell doors and shouting that they were innocent and stitched up, and thinking to myself "hmm, I actually am innocent and stitched up, perhaps I ought to bang on the doors"

@Damien McMullen I am keen to understand whether you feel guilt, shame, or only embarrassment after the months you spent mocking me, the person you said Oli was made for and vice versa – the only person about whom he felt anything, you said – after you threw me under the bus for the sake of money (which I hasten to add is not a kind or decent thing as which to treat Sam Cherny)

I think I said I would feel suicidal guilt and shame - I have before - if you really want to call me mad, if you want an example of a time when I really did descend into near-suicidal mental turmoil, it was out of guilt:

etc etc etc - it went on for a very long time - I have never ever experienced anything like that guilt - I remember that it wasn't so much that I _considered_ killing myself, it was more that I was petrified of the certainty that I would - it felt like receiving a terminal illness diagnosis

anyway, I am not making any recommendations, Damien, I am just stunned at how content you seem to be with the situation

I repeat what I said earlier to Edward:

I had remembered them as prohibiting me from entering only Upper Mall

I looked this evening and they in fact forbid me to enter your house (??) (was I ever allowed to enter your house of my own accord beforehand?!)

Very strange

Anyway, @Damien McMullen perhaps you could tell the Chernys what I told you the day of my visit, since you’re so worried about my having ‘frightened’ them - I might have frightened them less if they had been told the truth about me, eh, as I asked you to do that very morning?

Afternoon, sorry

Narrator: it has yet to happen at T+438 with N+1077 lies

Are the Chernys finally getting the message? What happens when we get Oli’s recorded interview? The one or two clear statements about it in their file suggest that he gave an account on which our relationship ended on April 12th, which is (1) presumably vastly more than the Chernys have been told and (2) still not the truth, as you and I both know, @Damien

@Damien McMullen I have asked Mr Hussain about calling Sam Cherny as a witness, and have bcc-ed you into that email so that you understand that your deceit is presently disintegrating, because my knowledge of that understanding on your part deeply gratifies me 👍

Frankly I don't know why I didn't consider this before, and I don't know how the police and CPS can have justified the extent to which he has been excluded from their investigation and their case despite being arguably more central than me or Oli to all of this.

I guess I inferred that he hadn't been in the house, that only Oli and Mrs Cherny had been, and that that was rotten luck on my part - but looking again at my original police bail documents (where he and his sister are named as witnesses whom I was forbidden to contact) and at Mrs Cherny's comment that "I told my family to... [etc]" (her husband lives in Boston and was noted for the purpose of the alleged intimate image charge not to be able to give a statement at that time, i.e. he was presumably not in this country – aside from the husband, it's just a daughter and a son, Sam), I think he almost certainly *was* in the house. Presumably they must have spoken to him to some extent that evening, and we should be able to get BWV of that (I'll just ask for audio because I don't care about the video stream or want to fight to get video of their family home), and I am fascinated to see what it contains, but also I think any full account of this situation cannot possibly omit his testimony.

Also, crucially, I and Sam Cherny are the two people who have no reason to lie. Oli has ample reason to lie, and does so about as often as he breathes (much though I love him), while Mrs Cherny has very little reason to lie, and mostly doesn't, but conversely she has nothing very interesting to say and I don't contest the very limited facts that her testimony establishes.

Oh so THAT was the point of @Damien McMullen’s incessant denials that Oli was in a relationship with @Sam Cherny: it was so that I wouldn’t call him as a witness. Damien, was it your belief that I was born on May 26th, 2026? Did you really think you could trick me into prison so that @Sam Cherny (that’s your name, right, @Sam Cherny: @Sam Cherny?) wouldn’t find out that Oli had cheated and indeed had a parallel relationship of love for the entire length of his and Oli’s relationship of convenience (or perhaps of love in one direction and convenience in the other)? Did you think you could keep him in the dark and me in a cell? I see you’ve unblocked me. Maybe Edward spoke to you, maybe someone else did, but you obviously figured out that you weren’t going to get away with blocking and ignoring me until the trial that you’ve refused to give evidence in. I suppose I’m due a message calling me ‘darling’ in a week or two…

I don’t find this very funny, Damien

Nor should you

I am currently filling in a form to summon you as a witness under CrimPR rule 17, or part 17 or god knows what, I don’t really care about the language - I need proof that you refused to attend voluntarily and that your evidence would be material, and fortunately I have about ten tons of that

I am doing the same for @Sam Cherny, though that’s a weird one because he is not a hostile witness per se and I don’t expect him to have any reason to lie - in a sane parallel universe he would have been interviewed by the police and the case would have fallen apart at that point, or else he should have been a natural prosecution witness, but this is not a sane universe and so we’ll have to do it this way - the materiality of his testimony at least is beyond question, since he is the only alleged witness for one of the charges (the indecent image one - he claims to have seen an image sent to his father, who for some reason, cc @Steve Cherny, can’t forward an email or give testimony from Boston, so without him the CPS is proposing to convict me based on hearsay), a better witness than Mrs Cherny on the stalking charge, etc. I also suspect that on the stand he will give an extremely and fascinatingly different account of what Oli told him than the account Oli gave in his recorded interview and will have to give in his testimony, which I highly recommend that Sam Cherny watch (15 Jan 2027, 10am, Courtroom 9, Westminster Magistrates’ Court — well, that’s the trial itself, I’m not sure exactly when Oli’s testimony is but I dimly recall that he was scheduled first, with quite some time blocked out, and then a shorter block for Mrs Cherny, and I believe then me).

I gather I have the right to direct Mr Hussain to request that both be summoned as defence witnesses - if he disagrees with my strategy I will override him, and then he is retained and paid by the court to cross-examine them (or examine them or hostile-defence-witness-examine them or whatever the formal status is), but @Damien has my word (which is worth rather more than his) that I will not let him wriggle away

@Damien you are of course always welcome to tell the truth _before_ then, if you don’t wish to be thought of as someone who, after all the chances and counsel I have given you, after describing the case as nonsense (and I will enjoy having Mr Hussain play that to you in court), still tried to have your friend locked up and made to bear the cost of your and Oli’s wrongdoing

But I expect you will remain silent

Silent except for laugh emojis

You seem to think you are entitled to come in here and respond with laugh emojis

And with nothing else

@Sam Cherny if you’re up for a spot of testifying, lmk! Unlike with Damien, I don’t anticipate that it will be an unpleasant conversation because, unlike Damien, you haven’t lied - you have been lied to, as I was

@Damien I have half a mind to start sending ‘???’ messages - you owe me an answer and my prolixity does not license you to act as though this is a monologue you needn’t reply to

You very much need to reply

You need to explain yourself, and for over a month you have refused to do so

Please locate and use your spine

I imagine it is hell on stilts to quit, and less fun than quitting a pure D2 antagonist like haloperidol, but I also imagine you could take a fuck load of antihistamines and a few other things and batten down the hatches and be through it in maybe the same time it took me to quit heroin (also v little fun) - if anyone wants my opinion, it is that chronic medication use was a broadly bad idea outside a few special cases like insulin for type 1 diabetes (Oli diabetes, not fat pig diabetes, which in my view is better treated by ceasing to be a gluttonous pig) - I would also point out that the so-called ‘negative symptoms of schizophrenia’ change era by era so as to remain at any given time *suspiciously similar* to the side effects of whatever drug or other treatment is en vogue (bromides, insulin overdose, lobotomy, neuroleptics/antipsychotics, etc) - anyway, thank you for attending my TED talk on modern medicine and psychiatry

Back to the point: @Damien, since you have time to send laugh reacts, and have evidently read my messages, perhaps you could answer me and – to quote Marwan’s immortal words – account for yourself?

Erratum: for “recent as of April 9-10”, read “recent as of March 9-10”. Apologies. God, I made essentially the same swapped-month error when I started shouting outside the Cherny house, and I was gutted and kicking myself in case @Sam Cherny The Monastically Silent heard the mistaken initial dates and stopped listening. I now know he never bothered to start to listen at all, which I suppose is a relief of a kind.

Also, for the record, since Mrs Cherny appears to have misheard me, what I said was “did you know Oli was cheating on *you*?”, not “did you know Oli was cheating on me?”. I suppose *in a sense* it is an equivalent question, but the latter implies me to have had essentially no theory of mind and no understanding that Sam Cherny’s main concern would be Oli’s infidelity to him and not Oli’s infidelity to the new partner he just discovered existed. Here are my speaker’s notes from that evening, since, far from planning to harm anyone, I was in fact petrified, dreading an extremely unpleasant anticipated gate-adjacent confrontation, and trying to stay focussed on my talking points:

I think I then looked through my photos (I take zero photos most days and several hundred photos whenever I’m with Oli, haha) and rattled off a few more dates before the police arrived. I was hoping to give the Chernys an objective way to prove or disprove my claims regardless of whether they trusted my honesty. I did give them such a way. That way obviously was not listened to or used, and I was prosecuted anyway, so: success!

For clarity: “Did you know Oli was cheating on you? I didn’t” was a slightly compressed and over-clever way to say “Oli was cheating on you with me, I have just figured this out and am telling you, but I categorically didn’t know at the time that he had another partner to whom he was being unfaithful” I guess the other thing it avoided stating explicitly - and perhaps I should not have had such faith in the Chernys’ ability to read between the lines, or to read the lines, or to read anything - was that I was the one that Oli had been cheating on him with

@Damien McMullen My Facebook advertising campaign about your misdeeds has reached 9,300ish people in my very narrow and intimately relevant catchment areas, so this would be an excellent time to bring a libel action if I were wrong, which I am not

I gather my cost per engagement is insanely low, i.e. the post is basically crack, which one can probably understand given that preview text

You have threatened to report me to the police for harassment, which my family found scary and I found hilarious, though I am aggrieved at you for causing them distress

You have not threatened to bring a libel action and you have not corrected me - you have done everything that a guilty man would and nothing that an innocent man would, and I think you owe the Chernys and me the truth - you evidently don't feel you do, and I look forward to having Mr Hussain ask you on the stand about what you said to me in those recorded calls and why you persisted in not telling the truth and trying to avoid court for many months despite knowing that Oli's claims were (to quote what you said to me) "ridiculous", "so silly", and "lies"

I also, of course, look forward *greatly* to asking you (or Mr Hussain asking you, which he must because all witnesses we might call are my victims or something like that) what you and Oli discussed that night in the messages you deleted - I look forward to asking Oli too, though I suspect you have both deleted your messages and both developed amnesia - I suppose his amnesia will set in very shortly after I left and dissipate by around 6am or whenever he deleted his copy

I think most people, if accused of something like this, would say something

Damien will say nothing

Perhaps he is saying something privately, and perhaps he is offering some high-sounding Legal Matters™ explanation, as if he were not trying to *avoid* being summoned as a witness in said Legal Matters™, and as though innocent people in the real world respond to extremely grave allegations (perverting the course of justice, framing a friend of over a decade in order to stop him from revealing his boyfriend's infidelity to the more materially convenient other partner) with total silence and non-contestation

All I can say is do not believe whatever the hell he is saying to any of you privately until he can say it to me, the Chernys, and everyone, which he obviously cannot

@Peter thanks for accepting my friend request! we still need to make a date for you to punch me in the face - I also need to make such a date with Sam Cherny, who similarly has threatened to punch me in the face - actually, a lot of people have threatened to punch me in the face, while I alone am being prosecuted as dangerous, haha (mind you I did punch Oli in the face, or rapped him on the head, I suppose. he was being FUCKING annoying and awful to me, and, though legally this is an extremely ill-advised thing to say, I am not sure I can honestly say that I feel remorse...)

anyway, I am not a deranged stalker, and I appreciate the small token of human recognition that your friend request acceptance represents ☮️

i am probably a quite intense person, and that has been called 'deranged' and 'stalking-like', but those words are being used in a much looser sense there - that is quite different from fantasising an entire relationship or whatever - I am intense, I am willing to tolerate embarrassment and nastiness in pursuit of ends I consider important - that does not mean I am dangerous or that I am Charles Guiteau or whatever, and there is some verbal sleight of hand being employed there

Also Peter: I see among your truly stupendously long list of friends (which includes my ancient ex-boyfriend Alex's great-aunt Kim Braden, a slightly washed-up actress whom I remember doing coke with in someone's flat in Chelsea when I was a sixth former, haha – I think she was known for being Anne in Anne of Green Gables, but that was a long time ago) that you are friends with a Lucinda Gordon-Lennox

I recognise the name Gordon-Lennox because I had an online acquaintance with a person I knew as Freddie Gordon-Lennox (who does exist and is the third son of the present Duke of Richmond) but have long felt pretty certain was actually Oli back in a period in early-mid 2023 when I wasn't replying to him as much as he wished I would (he has loved me from essentially the word 'go', and in late 2023 it became mutual but at that point it wasn't)

I wonder if you know of Freddie Gordon-Lennox or have any idea if Oli has known him - the 'Freddie Gordon-Lennox' I spoke to was great friends with Oli and his greatest cheerleader, haha - aw, god, I feel bad saying this, and I think it was adorable and sweet

I really am not out to destroy Oli, for what it's worth, and I think those Damien phone calls (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf6DCuNmELvw) make that clear – I am out to destroy Damien, not physically but socially, but Oli, for some stupid unreasonable reason, I find it impossible to feel that way about – I think he has lied both to and about me (the 'to' part is slightly on the back burner right now, lol) but I will never not see things from inside his head

Anyway, the 'Freddie Gordon-Lennox' I knew was extremely, extremely like Oli, hahahah - to the point that my friend Roman, who was at Eton and whom I'd asked about whether he'd known FGL (he hadn't, he was a year or two above him) remarked that most of the Lords and Honourables he'd known at Eton were not quite so fascinated by themselves and their own families, which I think cut 'Freddie' slightly because I got a very long and peeved reply that included scornful commentary about Roman's boarding house 😭

Aw, poor 'Freddie' - I will never not adore 'Freddie'

Anyway, the 'Freddie Gordon-Lennox' I knew was extremely, extremely like Oli, hahahah - to the point that my friend Roman, who was at Eton and whom I'd asked whether he'd known FGL (he hadn't, he was a year or two above him) remarked that most of the Lords and Honourables he'd known at Eton were not quite so fascinated by themselves and their own families, which I think cut 'Freddie' slightly because I got a very long and peeved reply that included scornful commentary about Roman's boarding house 😭

I note that Freddie died off or was killed off and never reappeared at basically the point at which I fell for Oli - possibly 'Freddie' had a role in the no-doubt-careful engineering of that mental process, hahaha

It probably makes me sound mad at this point, but he loves me, or at any rate has loved me (I very much doubt that this has changed, though the last few months have been highly unusual), more than i have ever been loved by anyone

And my proof is "flight companies":

"Flight companies", otherwise known as "airlines", haha, Oli, but he was falling over himself from the beginning to be liked by me 🤷 (sadly he has become a bit more confident in our attachment..............)

Anyway, I think the best point I can hope to make in support of my contention that I am not a deranged lunatic who is lying to you is the one I made by email the other day, to wit: if I knew Oli and Sam Cherny were in a relationship, and was merely trying to cause havoc by pretending falsely that Oli had been cheating on him with me, then *why would I not have said any of that the first time (and, as it turned out, only time) I met Sam Cherny?* Why instead just talk about Oli's lie that he had been an Albanian cartel whatever, and that I needed to be able to trust him, and (I am pretty sure, as best I recall) not even say that I had been dating him (because I thought it was so obvious and uncontroversial that it went without saying – I now realise it wasn't, and wish I had said it to Sam Cherny on that occasion)?

Oli predicted, correctly, that neither of us would say explicitly that we were Oli's boyfriends, because both of us would regard that as so obvious as to go without saying - that correct prediction was socially brilliant in a devious sort of way, haha

Anyway DAMIEN @Damien WHEREFORE ART THOU DAMIEN? WHERE ART THOU, AND WHEREFORE? I think you should be here or not at all

Ah, I see where you are, you're on Instagram:

Perhaps it might be nice if you explained, at some point, you know, whenever you have a spare moment, WHY YOU TRIED TO HAVE YOUR FRIEND OF 12 YEARS WRONGFULLY IMPRISONED BASED ON WHAT YOU YOURSELF CALLED 'LIES' AND 'RIDICULOUS', IN ORDER TO COVER UP HIS BOYFRIEND'S INFIDELITY TO THE LATTER'S OTHER BOYFRIEND ??????? JUST MAYBE ????????????? As I said to you once on Instagram, I SORT OF FEEL THIS IS THE KIND OF MESSAGE THAT ONE REPLIES TO

but evidently not if one is Damien 🤷

sobeit, I will externalise the cost of your behaviour onto your friends until one of them is annoyed/vibrated enough to ask you why you won't say one thing to pacify this lunatic

friends, sorry I'm being a pain in the ass, but, like, I am being prosecuted based on the lies that Damien is quietly supporting and protecting and which I strongly suspect (from his deleted messages and amnesia, and from the fact that Oli wouldn't have given that specific chronological account if he had not known that Damien would not contradict it – April 12th vs April 16th is v significant in this respect, given Damien was present in these chats in those days: https://groups.chats.swhra.uk/) he helped devise, and I do not accept that he can simply ignore me, refuse to account for himself or tell the truth, and then sniff at me and call me mad for sending too many messages - I am not mad, I am just, with all respect, more concerned in this instance by my potentially going to prison on a false account that Damien is complicit in than I am by the possibility of my irritating his friends

and I really think it is unbelievable arrogance by him to read my messages, send a laugh react at one point, lounge around on Instagram, and not explain himself

I don't know who the fuck he thinks he is, frankly

@Peter if you could pass one message to Sam Cherny, who I know you know, it is this: he was filming me throughout that encounter, the only time we met, on my first visit - ask him, if he still has it, to *watch that video* and ask himself whether I behaved like the relationship-inventing saboteur that Oli has clearly tried to paint me as since the second visit, or whether I behaved like Oli's boyfriend who thought Sam Cherny was his housemate and therefore didn't really say anything much about the subject

(well, I discussed Oli's lies and said I wanted to talk to him privately - I had gone there to collect him in order to have a proper conversation about the Albanian thing - at that point Sam Cherny was just an irritating obstacle at the gate, and not someone I realised needed to be informed about anything)

Instagram sesh finally done - @Damien if it is at all possible that you have been busily conspiring with Oli (probably somewhat less gleefully than before), Instagram would be really a supremely unwise place to do your conspiring, and I think at this point the sensible thing would be to call a halt to the conspiring

I remind you you are in a prisoner's dilemma with a fellow prisoner who is *notoriously* untrustworthy and whose only stable attachment is to me - I would not keep piling chips onto a losing hand if I were you

@Damien Since you're on Instagram again, I would add one more thing

Even if you're not summoned as a witness, do you think we are not going to ask Oli serious questions about the relationship history and then put his answers immediately to Mrs Cherny, or Heather or whatever she's called, when she testifies right after him? Or, if the order is changed, vice versa?

I don't see this surviving that process, let alone your testimony (hostile or not) or (holy grail imo) Sam Cherny's

Maybe you will escape a summons, idk, it's possible that my rage towards you is driving that more than what it would actually add to the case itself - I dunno, I'll defer to Mr Hussain on that, at least somewhat - but the lie is not going to survive the trial, and I will try to make sure we ask at some point about what you knew or were told, because establishing that you were a knowing part of my deception probably *will* be useful even if your testimony ends up being decided to be not strictly required (i dunno)

Here are all of my photos and videos (or the live photo MOVs excluding the longer video-propers for some reason, I can't recall): https://media.swhra.uk/ Here are all the call recordings: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK1sBErwRKjk Here are Oli's DKIM-signed emails: https://github.com/swhra/OliEmails He can lie to Peter - I mean, it's a vile thing to do, but he can and has proven himself willing to lie to many people - but he is not going to have much luck denying all that in court

We can put to Mrs Cherny all of his messages and also the calls in which he calls Sam Cherny, her son, dangerous, and says he fears to tell him who his 'loved ones' are: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o4CO3KQG8dxiYpg_p_jwrIgOsbDkklEi/view

Then in his statement – and presumably he also elaborates on this sort of theme in his interview – he peevishly complains that I had said he was involved in criminality: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rkSAAMXZ3VA7RGr98wtsU7G2MQnh498p/view That will be fun to ask him about, and then her

She says he told her in February that he had a stalker (yours truly!), but I suspect it might have been Jan 31st, when we had had an argument about his not replying to me and being unreachable, and I had said (as on so many other occasions) that I would go to his house to talk to him: https://oli.chats.swhra.uk/#msg-fb-4151

I said that because I semi-consciously realised it was the one thing that worked, the one thing that made him reply, *not at all suspiciously*.... At one point I even wrote this joke script as a nod to that: https://gist.github.com/swhra/96ad6780995f0ac6d0c31340bf9040d8

And it was at those points that he would declare that I was a stalker, which was obviously what he planned to say, and finally in May what he did say, when I got there

With your support, Damien! He couldn't have done it without you! What a wonderful friend you are to him, and the reason he is in the position he is now in, and you too are

What a great thing you didn't tell him on May 27th, as any morally sane fucking person would have, that it had gone too far already, that it was unthinkable to make false criminal accusations against his boyfriend (well, one of two) and *your friend of 12 years*, and that he needed to own up and tell the truth, because it was his mess, not mine

No, instead you decided that it should be mine, and that has now more or less decisively failed, and you have no way to stand in that shame, hence all this laugh react, blocking / unblocking, etc crap

You cannot come back and resume being my friend as if you didn't try - and are not *still*, out of habit and hope, trying - to have me falsely convicted and locked up to cover up what Oli did

And I think the Chernys are also owed the truth, so take as long as you want to but you are going to need to answer this before long

I might add, by the way, because I have almost bloody forgotten amidst everything else, that *he cheated on me too*, and I really ought to be aggrieved about that and not just about the prosecution - but the prosecution has a way of eclipsing the other things, haha

Also I suppose I know deep down that it wasn't cheating in the sense that - as you so charmingly pointed out - he feels nothing for Sam Cherny, only for me: https://youtu.be/MIXBADeyxWU?si=Lr_uDl3XCdPPz376&t=4368 And I know deep down what each relationship is for, and I am fucking sorry that Sam Cherny is going to have to at some point have that realisation - it is cruel

If there is one thing that I lied about and that I regret, it was pleading guilty to assault and saying constantly that my hitting Oli was wrong and that I regret doing so

In hindsight I wish I could have pled “I hit him, yes”, not “guilty”

I regret it only in the sense that my late friend Lars might have regretted this:

One regrets that one was in the situation at all, but not how one responded within it

And, frankly, shame on him and shame on Damien - and shame *will be* on them - for trying to make me bear the consequences of that and also of everyone else’s actions while erasing what they respectively did and knew

That was the entire subject of those group chats (groups.chats.swhra.uk) about which Damien yet again claims amnesia, even though they are still right there in his list of conversations for him to refer back to

Still remember none of that, Damien? Nothing about the subject of all those conversations, which was “I hit Oli, ok, make of that what you will, but let us also talk about what happened leading up to that”?

Nothing about my and Oli’s relationship?

You have told me in the last couple of months alone that: - I made up a relationship out of meth or autism or something - Oli and I were made for each other and you were so glad we had worked it all out - I loved Oli and he didn’t love me back - I am the only person for whom you have ever known Oli to feel any emotion, and our conversations are precious and it is wrong for me to post them on the internet - I should go to prison - I should not go to prison and the case will surely be thrown out - I should be remanded - “why would I want you to go to prison, Sam? I’m your friend!” etc etc etc ad et ultra nauseam

Obviously you felt that Oli’s relationship with Sam Cherny would not survive the revelation that Oli is capable of love, lust, and feeling, and I can see why and I feel very sorry for Sam Cherny, but that does not give you or Oli the right to lie to other Sam or to have me fucking imprisoned so you can relieve him of his money (well, ok, he doesn’t seem to give Oli money in a literal sense - I lose count of how many times I had to pay for Tube fares, £1 tins of Vaseline, packets of crisps, etc - but I assume there is a ‘long game’ here)

Not a very long game any more, I suspect

Pity he couldn’t do what you did and just stick to the one relationship, if he was going to play that game

But he couldn’t, because it’s a fucking miserable fucking game, Christ, what does that show?

You can euphemise the worship of money as ‘safety’ or ‘security’ or whatever you like, but I … well, the Indo-European root of ‘secure’, pace Benveniste, is something very vaguely like ‘set apart from oneself’, and I would question whether one has any safety worth having when one has to wait for quiet nights to call the person one loves

Anyway, this is all less than urgently relevant - my main point is that you need to account for yourself and what you did and why, much as one does when one sends an email to Marwan

What did you do, what did you discuss on the 28th, will you stop this absurd pretence of amnesia that we both know is a lie, will you tell the truth in court, and will you come clean?

@Peter I invite you to make what you will of @Damien’s inability to say a word to me in the presence of others, or against me in my presence 🤷‍♂️

@Damien @Peter @Sam — who was told what by whom about each of Oli’s Sams at what point? I think we should just collapse the compartments, what say you? (Well, obviously I will count Damien as a probable ‘no’ vote.)

@Damien there was a brief moment of typingness there before you thought better of it… Flaubert used to yell his sentences again and again until he threw up blood, and I think that would be a good sentence even if it doesn’t produce one

I am going to make a web app to which everyone here can submit their respective versions of reality given to them by Oli (and maybe Damien), and we can figure out what the hell has gone on

I for one am very keen to figure it out and I sense that others are beginning to lose faith in their realities too, as I did a while ago

Maybe then Peter will be able to quit the olanzapine! He’ll be right as rain in an hour or two, haha

I mean I really have to underscore how selfish all of this has been and how heedless of the cost to others

But I suppose that comes with the ‘long game’, doesn’t it? Human beings are animate vending machines, feelings and love are tools, etc

Peter is a machine into which deranged paranoid fantasies can be fed and out of which come trust and affiliation and usefulness to the ‘long game’

And I am made out to be the enemy of the Chernys, and the person who has ‘frightened’ them, etc - did I frighten them, Damien, or did you?

The Chernys and I, though I may occasionally be exasperated by what seems to me their Guinness Book of World Records-winning obtuseness, are ultimately in the same boat

What did I tell you the day I went to visit them, Damien? Let’s find those messages, hold on

Did you think I was a danger to them, Damien? Did anything at all suggest that? Would I have asked you to accompany me had I been planning to slaughter the Cherny family or whatever deranged story Oli told them? Am I responsible for their fear or are he and you responsible for their fear in the same way you are for Peter’s?

You could have passed along a message - I asked you to - and you didn’t, and you imply that you are the one who is being kind to the Chernys and I am the one ‘bothering’ and ‘frightening’ them - it is thanks to you and Oli that I had to go to their house to get across a message that you should have passed along, just as you should have sent that email that you promised to send and then didn’t - and it is thanks to Oli and perhaps in some part you that my visit was interpreted as a physical threat, as if the guy from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre stood outside an open gate and repeatedly rang the fucking doorbell until the police arrived

Was I a nuisance? Yes. Should I have had to be a nuisance, and be arrested and defamed by you and others as a menace for a message that YOU SHOULD HAVE CONVEYED AS A MATTER OF OBVIOUS MORAL SENSE? No.

What do you say to Sam Cherny about the fact that you could have told him the truth several months ago, if not longer (I don’t really know exactly when you became aware, though I know you have certainly been aware for a month or two, and possibly long before May 27th or April 18th, maybe even when you were congratulating me and telling me Oli and I were made for each other? I dunno. Sam Cherny may know. Peter may know.

All I know is that this is the conversation you and Oli really didn’t want me to have, and so this is the conversation I am going to have

@Sam Cherny look at the video you took of me at the gate, look at all the emails I have sent over the past few months (some of them very wrong in my inferences or conclusions, esp early on, but consistent in my testimony about I knew first-hand and what I’d been told by Oli), and ask yourself whether you really believe whatever insane story I’m sure you’ve been told about me, or whether you think it is possible, just possible, that Oli, the person you said I was stupid to trust, is someone you were stupid to trust

Here is Oli after my evil and unprovoked assault on him, when he purports to have said “no contact from now on, Difficult Ex-Boyfriend and Sometime Stalker Sam, after you turned up and demanded my medical data and then hit me and that is definitely the whole story”:

Are you going to say that in front of Edward, Damien?

Has this gone far enough, perhaps?

Why exactly can't others think for themselves? Why must they be instructed to disregard me?

Also, bloody Facebook has a 25MB limit which is bloody impossible, one sec, uploading to YouTube

I mean, honestly, this is a fucking disgrace and you should be ashamed of yourself (Damien, not Facebook)

video #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y714Bfvg22Y

(he had put foundation on by that point)

my hitting him and the video of him immediately afterwards is already on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1PlcocbTtU I had assumed the relevant people must surely have seen it (Sam Cherny above all) but maybe not - anyway, you be the judge of whether i should have hit him, but I am conflicted at best

you will note that, far from saying "no contact, ex-boyfriend Sam", he can in fact be heard shouting that he was going to go to my parents' house, with or without me, to meet my family [he had already met my mum, and my dad was away or in a different part of the house each time, but he did meet my brother Joe for the first time, which was sweet because Joe for some reason was the person who was always faintly on his side when everyone else was telling me, probably correctly, that I was mad to bother with him] - which is probably about as far from "no contact, ex-boyfriend Sam" as one can be

on the off chance that these websites SOMEHOW haven't reached the Chernys or Sam Cherny - just going based on Damien's panic - I will repeat the links: https://oli.chats.swhra.uk https://damien.chats.swhra.uk https://groups.chats.swhra.uk https://emails.swhra.uk https://media.swhra.uk

I have spent months and months trying to get the truth to these people, Damien, while you have lied to them, so I would say it is not really your place to insult me - I would say it is your place to plead for forgiveness from both me and the Chernys

or, more likely, to shut up and, as Cicero said, _confer te alio_, probably to rip someone else off

oh, and if you say that I am lying, bring a libel action, but you won't, because I'm not, and my accusations against you will remain up - oh yeah, that's the one website I forgot to list: https://damien-mcmullen.swhra.uk

also, with not very much respect, I am going to remove your disgraceful name for this group

You removed the group name.

Damien, I tell you what, why don't you look up these chats, which you are still in, and tell me what they contain:

this is what they contain: [aaargh godforsaken fucking facebook and its 25mb limit, one sec, bear with]

also, @Damien McMullen, I wouldn't need to spam these people if YOU TOLD THE FUCKING TRUTH, you useless treacherous waste of fucking minerals

here is the second video of Oli at my parents' house after I hit him, while my screen recording of the group chats uploads: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JFbzsFsxAHM sorry again to all of you for the spamming, which Damien could put a stop to in one second by telling the truth rather than defying me to do this

here are the group chats Damien was in and is still in (I have just tagged him for his convenience, so that he can send an equivalent screen recording to all of you if he disputes the contents of those chats): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA44rNs6CNQ

here is the other reason Damien knows, which is that Oli sent him a message the day I first went to your (@Sam Cherny's) house, declaring us to be broken up, as he did every single time I threatened to go to his (well, your, as I now know - your family's!) house

so that's the date: April 18th, two or three hours before I finally got there (I had a nightmare journey that day, it was awful, the Tube was fucked)

"HH", by the way, is "heil Himmler"

I gather your family are Jewish

So am not sure whether Oli does that joke with you

My family are German for god's sake (well, some of them are, my dad's mum's side), and I warned him off it, haha:

@Peter I must ask: how exactly did Oli explain the video of him showing me his recent WhatsApp messages to/from you, while obviously being boyfriendy/intimate/etc? Judging by the replies you sent me before quickly blocking me ("can he track us? use a VPN in Zaire"), I strongly inferred that he said I had used my super-magical powers to fake those videos and somehow access your messages

here again is that video: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rrWmgTI-XqU

To be clear, I do not have super-magical powers - I could get Davenport's sex party attendees' emails because they literally leaked them from an API endpoint and I could inspect them in my browser's dev tools - that is basically teenage boy grade 'hacking' and was only possible because they were a shambles and I think their CEO Lewis recognised that in his slightly panicked emails to me, poor Lewis - but intercepting someone's WhatsApp messages is another universe of endeavour

And besides, if I could intercept anyone's WhatsApp messages, I wouldn't be asking Damien and everyone else what they were bloody told, and I wouldn't have remained in the dark for so long

I'm afraid I am a human being with feet of clay and Oli has been unfaithful and that is the very very simple explanation for all of this, not that I am the Mossad and Pixar rolled into one

@Damien McMullen, would you like to tell that truth of which you have always been well aware, or would you prefer to continue to disgrace yourself before this eventually collapses?

perhaps you could explain what you mean by 'stalker', for one, because that word seems to be used rather sloppily to mean many different things - are you saying that I am sending too many messages about the truth, or are you suggesting that I am lying?

I assume to me and Edward you mean the former, and then to Sam and Steven Cherny and Peter you will say you meant the latter, so I would like you to particularise the charge here for all of us

in a similar vein, here are our calls on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf6DCuNmELvw I have shared various quotations and timestamped links from them over the past month or so, which cannot have failed to come to your attention do you claim that they are in some way fabricated? that I hired a Damien impersonator, like US presidential candidates have when rehearsing for debates? a Damien stand-in? or perhaps more likely you have thrown around 'AI' or something like that as an omni-explanation? i dunno, maybe i'm wrong and i shouldn't really be having to guess please state in front of everyone what your position is (you won't, because you won't say to me and in front of Edward - who can listen to those recordings, maybe even has, and can tell that that is you - that they are fake, nor will you admit to the Chernys that they are real, because you are still presenting different versions of reality to each side)

@Damien McMullen do you claim that you didn't tell me, on May 9th I think or whatever date it says in those screenshots (they are in tiny little squares right now), that Oli wasn't going to "leave" me, and that if I gave the group chats and emails a rest – i.e. stopped telling others about our relationship – he would soon enough come back to me? you speak to him daily or near-daily, you said, and were plainly communicating his position

i.e. that he loves me and will gladly continue to cheat on Sam Cherny with me as long as Sam Cherny doesn't find out

your position, and presumably his position, on May 9th, was that I hadn't been "left"

which makes it rather odd, does it not, that he subsequently said to the police – in an account you have refused to contradict and which he must have known you wouldn't contradict when he gave it – that he broke up with me on April 12th

though I suspect even the "broke up on April 12th" version is designed for the police/court and is presumably *far* more than the Chernys have been told

anyone who wants to can see the jumble of different accounts in their initial prosecution case file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rkSAAMXZ3VA7RGr98wtsU7G2MQnh498p/view

Oli, statement #1: me = ex-boyfriend, Cherny = housemate Oli, statement #2: me = slightly unclear, probable ex-boyfriend, Cherny = still housemate Mrs Cherny, only statement: me = STALKER not otherwise specified, Oli = son's friend (not sure if this is a lie or the euphemistic sense of 'friend' that my grandma uses) Oli, interview probably, as inferred from attached police comment in that file: relationship ended on April 12th - still no direct quotes and nothing explicitly attributed to the interview that has him naming Sam Cherny as partner, though I expect we'll get that when we get the audio – clearly the police came away with that understanding

also, re "not reported to police at the time", I did say to him, and it's on the recording (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1PlcocbTtU), that I would accompany him to the police station (we happened to be walking past it) and tell the truth if he wanted to make a report, despite not really feeling I had been wrong to hit him - he didn't want to make a report, he just wanted to go straight to my family's house, in true no contact spirit, lol

Sorry I disappeared - I am just off to the Buddhist Centre with my mum to meditate - I had completely forgotten I agreed to it, and it feels slightly absurd today of all days, but yeah, ommm or what have you

@Damien while I meditate on love and bloody kindness, perhaps you might meditate on answering my questions

my "Parliament erred in passing the Offences Against the Person Act 1861" defence has been cruelly slapped down 😭

@Sam Cherny https://peter.chats.swhra.uk/ sorry

> it grew upon me that I was responsible, because no one else was interested—interested, I mean, with that intense personal interest to which every one has some vague right

Sorry, this is approximately the worst recording in the history of the universe, but I was caught entirely unawares and chronically struggling with how to record Messenger calls (next time I'll give Wireshark a try; I managed to reconstruct a Google Meet call from fortunately-unencrypted Opus frames, so it might work) Also strictly I didn't warn Peter this time, so this is probably einen kleinen violation der Law - on the other hand, who gives a fuck?, and I hardly think the guy can have been unaware of my principle of recording/archiving things and using that to break compartments

[Voice message]Attachment unavailable: 2539761463162966.m4a

Notably in that snippet of conversation I am given no real explanation of why it is absolutely impossible for me and Sam Cherny to ever speak to one another, or why he cannot be told that Oli and I are in a relationship except because he "would have a tantrum" (this is a curiously Damien-like explanation, in that it concedes the exact thing it should not concede, provides no other explanation, is essentially an admission, but is delivered as though it were an alternative explanation - it is in the same category as Damien's classic "I deleted the messages because they were _neeegative_ and I just didn't want to _keeep_ them")

Just as Damien could much more plausibly have explained that he was super drunk or had taken a Valium and that this was why he had no memory of his May 27th-28th chats with Oli, Peter could have explained this by saying that Sam Cherny was furious about _[this, that, or the other; you could pick from quite a handful of things]_ and wanted no contact with me, and held the PHA 1997 over my head by suggesting that any attempt to check with him directly might be construed as further unwanted contact and reported to the police - it probably wouldn't have stopped me, but it would have been a better answer - instead we now have _tantrum over relationship not otherwise specified_ (TOR-NOS)

@Sam Cherny Why would you throw a tantrum? Would that be a 'tantrum' in the same way my visit was 'stalking'? I am guessing – just a hunch – that you wouldn't consider anger at Oli's dating someone else to be an irrational and child-like reaction?

I might add that if Oli is now in a tight spot, it is a tight spot he put himself in by making false reports to the police, not correcting them for several months while I was prosecuted, and (I don't know but I think it fairly probable) trying to keep Damien and others aligned with his account

He now seems to expect me too - the victim - to help sustain his false account so that he doesn't have to bear the consequences of having falsified it, and at this point I think he has taken leave of his senses

It is clearly not a coincidence that Peter has come to me today, as the line is collapsing, repeating Damienic lines about how an Oli-Cherny relationship is "the most ridiculous idea [I] have ever had" ('ever'? we have exchanged about seven messages, lol), conceding that Oli "tells me he loves you" (@Sam Cherny has he told you all about that? or only Peter?), etc...

look, god, @Sam Cherny, the few of these emails that concern my relationship with Oli are essentially physically/mathematically certain proof that I cannot have faked even if I were a nation state: https://github.com/swhra/OliEmails

given your interest in cryptocurrency I'm guessing you have at least a cursory understanding of hashing, collisions, public key cryptography, etc, enough probably to paste that readme and the general idea into ChatGPT and understand what it says back to you

suffice it to say that if I could forge (i.e. by generating a collision by brute force, as opposed to breaking into Google's HSMs or whatever) those DKIM-signed emails, I could steal all your monkey art and everyone's Bitcoins and everything - the chat logs ought to convince any reasonably sensible person with human context and a memory of dates etc, the photos and videos should do the same but are conceivably dismissible as AI, but the DKIM-signed emails are the Rust borrow checker of relationship proofs

(thanks to Damien and Peter I now regard the fact of an Oli-Cherny relationship as essentially proven and not seriously requiring argument)

@Sam Cherny I repeat the question I asked you at your house: how strongly has Oli discouraged you from ever talking to me? I am guessing very strongly, haha. Is it absolutely imperative? Dangerous? Life-threatening? Like listening to the song of the sirens? I wonder why!

Possibly because I'm telling the truth!!

Possibly because a three-minute conversation between the two of us would almost certainly suffice to clear up what has happened

Can you speak? Can you type? Do you have thumbs? You seemed to have thumbs when I met you. At least I don't specifically recall your not having thumbs 🤔 👍👎

I am going to try to have you summoned as a witness, which I hope and assume you won't mind too much since it seems highly likely you'll accompany your mother and your partner there anyway, and I know Oli would never let you testify voluntarily, and you might believe what I am saying when it comes from Mr Hussain after cross-examining Oli in court, rather than from me, Chief Stalker Sam

That being said, it would be nice if we could get this cleared up before then

Hmm, actually, I am going to devise something like Formspring that might let us break the compartments without so much fear of being identified as having said xyz

YES

eureka

update to come later

will explain game theory of

OK, there's a JS port of Tor that @Sam Cherny will be pleased to hear was written by some Ethereum-related developers - I am going to use this, I am going to give you all a file you can use locally, and it will connect over Tor (ergo untraceably) to a domain sammail.co that I had lying around anyway, and through that you will be able to send emails (untraceably, signed by some random username @ sammail.co, probably I'll let you choose or else randomise one) to anyone in this group - will probably support direct SMTP for those thus inclined, and a little HTML UI for 9 out of 10 people here Once done, we will all be able to send anonymous emails to one another This is the first of several weird anonymity-related experiments I am going to run in order to try to break these compartments - this will be like Xerox PARC or Facebook's NPE team but for the subject of Oli's infidelity specifically 🤓

(soz, meant to include link to Ethereum guys' JS Tor lib: https://pse.dev/projects/tor-js https://github.com/privacy-ethereum/tor-js)

Actually nah that is too pointlessly sophisticated and you’re not going to trust anything I write anyway

I will just write the dumb SMTP / web UI and the more paranoid among you can set up Tor yourself - use a couple of hops, use French or German exit nodes, accept that you’re not a semi-mythical North Korean dissident and that you don’t need the absurd default settings, and it can actually be decently fast - if super paranoid, use Tails - if beyond paranoid, follow the key ceremony laptop-buying protocol we devised at Monzo: https://monzo.com/blog/2021/11/18/protecting-our-most-sensitive-secrets

sammail.cc

Apologies. Comma before ‘now does’.

You set the nickname for Damien McMullen to Damien McMulling.

You set the nickname for Steve Cherny to Steve Earny.

You set your nickname to Sam 'The Stalker' Robinson-Adams.

You set the nickname for Marwan Luke Riach to CC: Marwan.

What do you know, I have a reply from @Damien, though still not an *answer*:

I am going to be convicted under the scary pseudo-law that says one can’t tell the truth about shitty people, presumably

I am sorry that so many people fall for this crap

I do not

Also, ‘my lawyer’, lol

Mr Jones, on retainer in case of Facebook posts

Afraid I refer Mr Jones to reply in Arkell v Pressdram

I repeat here what I have said to @Damien, for clarity

Namely: I am still waiting for an answer, @Damien, and I am tired of your whinging

What did you know about my and Oli’s relationship, and what did you know about Oli and Sam Cherny’s relationship, and when did you know it? Please give a straight answer here to all of us.

Also, Oli obviously knew that you would not contradict his false account. You deleted all your Instagram DMs with Oli at 6am the following morning. What did they contain? Did he delete his own copy? And what did you talk about? You claim amnesia. This is bullshit and I am tired of pretending to take this sort of claim seriously. What did you discuss and what did you agree?

I am treading carefully because I am not quite sure how broadly ‘indirect communication’ is interpreted and Oli has shown willingness to report any and all communication in the hope that I’ll be imprisoned on remand, *but* suffice it to say there is an obvious way to refresh your memory, *if* you truly deleted your copy spontaneously for personal reasons of “not liking negative conversations” rather than in a coordinated effort to cover up what was discussed. An innocent man would at this point provide a screen recording that would put the matter to rest. It has been too long since my first request (June 26th, iirc) for me to trust a convincing-looking text file. I don’t think you are an innocent man and so I don’t expect any such thing, but I would like you now to tell me the truth of what happened.

@Damien: If you want to answer my questions on the phone instead of in this thread – from which I infer that there are people in this thread, almost certainly the two Chernys, in front of whom you don't want to tell the truth, and others, principally Edward, in front of whom you aren't prepared to lie and insult me in the way you have elsewhere – then I would want to set up a phone call with at least one person from each of those two groups. I very much doubt either of the Chernys would agree to such a call, but if you can set it up with them, I am happy to do so. I would want to record it but I could try to censor their remarks or not share too widely or ... well, we could work something out that satisfied all of us (except you of course). That being said, I think it should be possible for you to answer those questions in this thread using your fingers and a keyboard, and I am increasingly frustrated with how many hoops you are forcing me through to obtain an answer to a question that you should have given immediately.

For instance, @Damien, are you able to acknowledge here that Oli and I were in a relationship this year? Do you remember getting this message on April 18th, a couple of hours before my first visit to Schloss Cherny, saying that Oli was finally breaking up with me? Do you remember saying on May 9th that he wasn't going to leave me? *Can you acknowledge this basic reality, that you have known and interacted quite extensively with me and Oli, as a couple, this year?* I strongly suspect you cannot and will not say those words in front of the Chernys. Cannot. Flatly. No matter what. And you will explain your silence to them through some back channel in some other way ("ongoing legal matters", "stalking", "mental illness", god knows what).

I know what is going on, Damien, sorry.

Also sorry for rejecting your call. I will take a Zoom call if you want, but I will record it as usual. One sec.

Actually, no, sorry, I'm done with Zoom calls because they are evidentially useless, and I have nothing that needs discussing over text in private with you. What I need from you is for you to address this in front of the other people involved in the situation. Private channels are not useful because you obviously have some device to explain away the stuff I publish that you have said in calls ("deepfake" or "AI" or whatever I assume).

I need you to acknowledge reality in front of the Chernys and in court, and I need you to explain what has gone on here with respect to your *now failed* plan not to acknowledge it.

I am sorry if this is unpleasant. Welcome to unpleasantness. I have spent the past few months in it, Damien, because of you, while you have mocked me and shown me considerably less concern than the undeserved concern that I am here extending to you.

You have snottily remarked to me that "I suppose you're just asking me [i.e. to tell the truth in court etc] because it would be useful in your criminal prosecution, so you don't go to prison", as if my wish not to be wrongly imprisoned while you withheld salient facts and avoided court were some kind of corrupt and illegitimate wish.

So: please answer, Damien, because I think we have reduced the matter to a sabre point, and that is this: answer.

And _do not_ try to give me some bollocks threatening non-answer again like this one - I think you have done enough of that now

@Sam Cherny What the fuck do you think is going on here? I invite you to draw the obvious inference.

(sorry, not angry at S.C., just conveying incredulity/exhaustion/obviousness)

Busy chats going on in the back channel, as I'm sure there are in some of your respective back channels with Damien, but not here

You were my friend of 12 years, you were (and you made great use of your status as) the objective third party, and what you have done is deserving of admission to Cocytus. It is unspeakable. Answer me. Answer everyone. Now.

What did you mean by "Sam has blown all this up with multiple group chats" when you said that to Oli on or around (Oli's screenshot makes it hard to be certain of which day *your* message was sent, but *his* message was sent on) April 18th? Answers on a postcard to me and @Sam Cherny. What did I blow up with multiple group chats? If it was blown up then, how blown up is it now, @Damien? Done and dusted? Demolished?

You said that, and then you said on May 9th that Oli would come back to me, i.e. resume cheating on Sam Cherny, if I stopped the group chats. I didn't, for which you're welcome @Sam Cherny.

Nope. No. Not any more, Damien.

Sorry. Enough of that. Sorry to be harsh, it's not my instinct, but you have said things to me and then lied about what you said and lied about me, *clearly*, so now we all talk in the same room.

No more back channels, no more fucking lies, Damien. You got yourself into this mess. I am not going to go willingly to prison so you don't have to explain what you did. This is obscene. I'm sure this is unpleasant, but I am not going to stop, nor have you any right to expect me to, so please now tell the truth.

No, Damien, you answer me now. No more whinging about the reminders I have sent and the friends I have involved. You could have stopped this by answering months ago, and you do not now tell me that my job is to go to prison based on these lies while you refuse to answer and instead whinge and tell me I have troubled your friends. ANSWER ME, DAMIEN, BECAUSE I AM FUCKING TIRED OF THIS SHIT FROM YOU.

Answer everyone, more to the point. Answer me and Sam Cherny and Steven Cherny and in the presence of Edward and godforsaken fucking Marwan and whoever else is here, now.

Trust me, they'll be a lot happier with your one message now than they will be come December if you still haven't answered by then. There is one way out of this. Though it is lovely of you to be so concerned for your friends.

No, Damien, I am not fucking doing this any more, sorry. You answer here.

No more different stories, no more desperate attempts to have different realities for different people.

By the way, I do not accept any blame for bothering your friends, or for bothering the Chernys. I asked you to pass the Chernys a message on the morning of the 27th and you didn't then. I was forced to go to their house if I was to tell Sam Cherny the truth about his relationship, and I was then forced to go to your friends if I was not to be prosecuted as some kind of vengeful violent stalker of Oli for trying to tell (and evidently not quite succeeding in telling) Sam Cherny the truth. I am *not* going to let you shift the blame onto me. You should have told the truth to begin with. Having failed, you will fucking well tell it now.

@Sam Cherny: If I were you, I would distrust back channels and I would not let Damien (as for Oli, I am legally forbidden to counsel you on your communications with him, but you can hopefully use some nous) wriggle out of replying to both of us in this thread.

I am sorry, by the way, @Sam Cherny. Some fucking friends you have. Some boyfriend. Rotten. I'm sorry.

By the way, that "breakup" message from Oli was after I told him I was going to visit to have a conversation. That was always when he broke up with me, every time. Did you know you can go from boyfriend to stalker in two hours? Apparently so. Is that what he told you, @Sam Cherny: "this is my stalker, who was my boyfriend at teatime but then he said he was paying me a visit"?

Also, what in god's name have they been telling you? I'm sure it's a doozy, as you Americans like to say...

No answer, and you've now gone offline. As I expected, then.

Sorry, Damien, I meant. Not Sam Cherny.

Also, Sam Cherny, I'm afraid I am going to press to summon you as a witness (I can't compel the magistrate but I can and will compel my lawyer to put my submission to the magistrate if he objects, which I doubt he will anyway) because I think you are being told some probably extraordinarily elaborate tower of falsehoods, which (1) is pretty crucial to understanding what has gone on, i.e. the stuff of the case, and (2) might stand a better chance of being dismantled by my court-appointed representative asking you questions after cross-examining Oli than it will by me (against whom I suspect you have been thoroughly intellectually inoculated).

I don't expect it to be a remotely hostile encounter, but I don't think there is any serious prospect of your agreeing to appear as a defence witness (that would probably not go down well at home), and the CPS has decided not to call you and to call your mother instead (who strikes me as a worse stand-in for you, with respect to what each of you can testify about – so I find that a tiny bit sus on their part and I suspect they at least have suspicions as to which floorboards are best not lifted).

They want to try it as a nice clean case where nobody digs too deep into what actually went on. "Sam went to house, rang doorbell, fear emotion reported, context not necessary to examine, therefore convict." I do not plan to let it play out that way and nor, thank God, does lovely Mr Hussain. (He actually offered to do the rest of the case pro bono, besides the required witness examination parts, which was a lovely offer - not sure if likely to be accepted by my parents but lovely offer - and possibly signifies something.)

By the way, @Damien, I don't suppose you've had any trouble from Martin's ghost lately?

What are your thoughts on what you have said to me and what Oli said to Peter (though Peter now knows the truth, which is a relief in some ways even if he won't tell it to Sam Cherny)?

What are your thoughts about calling me mad and trying to have me locked up? What are your thoughts on trying to make me question my sanity for believing Oli was in a relationship with @Sam Cherny (that's your name, right, @Sam Cherny? it's @Sam Cherny, right?) – a mad proposition, eh, @Sam Cherny? Did @Damien know of your relationship, @Sam Cherny? Why did he tell me I was mad to believe it? Was it that unobvious? Why am I and why have I always been forbidden to talk to you, except for that single gate standoff which Oli obviously (in his near-infinite social perspicacity which I don't question) predicted would be safe? Why did he panic every time I messaged you, thinking you were his housemate, to say "hey, could you ask Oli to reply"? You can look through your Facebook and see threads full of deleted messages to you ever since Oli finally in January identified where he lived and identified you as his 'housemate'?

Well, you [now continuing to address @Sam Cherny, not @Damien] were 'Sam the American', along with 'Oliver the American' and the British 'Chris' who may or may not be based on a real person, I dunno. But he eventually mentioned your surname enough while nattering, and mentioned that your father was a partner at Quinn Emanuel in the States, which made it fairly trivial to iterate through viable approximate homophones and find the correct surname. (This is easy mode as far as Oli-related inferences go.)

I actually have my contemporaneous notes, haha:

Sorry, should have been a period rather than a question mark at the end of my propreantepenultimate message. (Great word, propreantepenultimate. Not often one gets to use it!)

(Also, sorry for my repeated @-tagged name jokes. I'm just taking the piss, since I imagine @Damien wincing every time I tag you.)

Can we now just regard the truth as established, for all intents and purposes? I think @Damien has had enough chances to contradict me. I am tired of letting him benefit from a doubt that he is choosing to keep alive, and I will soon update my website (https://damien-mcmullen.swhra.uk, free libel damages there if he were innocent which he's not) to reflect all of this.

(sorry @Sam Cherny for the CCTV from your house there, but you will appreciate that two of its inhabitants are having me criminally prosecuted based partly on something that should have been captured - were its existence mentioned - by the camera on the right; nonetheless I will try to fix it so that that photo doesn't appear as the card-y thing when linking to the page)

I remind everyone that this could have been over several hundred messages ago if Damien had just answered this – instead he has sent, if I recall correctly, exactly two laugh reacts and exactly zero replies

@Damien I think the at least residually decent choice - and for Oli too - would be to so arrange events that Sam Cherny is _not_ confronted for the first time in court with the realisation of what actually happened, what Oli actually said to me, what he said about Sam Cherny, that what (I strongly suspect) Oli said to him about me wasn't true*, etc etc etc. What say you? Nothing, obviously. Rhetorical question. But I would consider that. *also of course what he said to me about Sam Cherny was largely not true, and the parts expressing contempt may themselves not have been true - I am not discounting that or saying "he really hated you", I'm just saying he lied to both of us and had different uses for both of us and I think Sam Cherny can probably figure out broadly what those might have been

Actually, idea: I am going to just send occasional little clips from our calls, a bit like that iTunes 12 Days of Christmas app from way back when (God, Sam Cherny might actually be too young to remember, since age runs in the opposite direction here to what one would expect in the circs...)

Sorry, friends, but annoying you is the only way to stop Damien from having me wrongly imprisoned - you are being annoyed in the way that a cow is milked - you are being milked for justice

Your annoyance, conveyed or inferred, is the pressure that may or may not lead Damien to do the right thing now rather than soldier on and hope to have a chance at the wrong outcome in five months' time

I will make soldiering on costly, and largely in terms of annoyance, for which requests for apology can (cc Marwan) be directed to Damien

I must say I really do find these messages from Damien quite extraordinary

Quite extraordinarily nauseous, I mean

I have nothing much to say other than to post them here and point out again that he says this having conspired to have me wrongly* imprisoned, and while continuing to refuse to account for himself here *I have sometimes said wrongfully, but properly I think one would say wrongly, or both wrongly and wrongfully, with the 'wrongful' element being supplied by the extraordinarily deficient investigative work done by this part of the Met and the 'wrong' element supplied quite happily by Damien and Oli

OK, the 152 days of Damienmas begins here, with one of my favourite passages, including the classic "self-destructing Instagram screenshot of an email sent to the CPS telling them they were wrong, after his full video-recorded interview, to conclude that Sam Cherny was his new partner":

[Video]

@Damien Do I have to present 8 hours of phone calls in little clips to establish in the Court of Mutual Friends & Chernys what you know you said, or can we please call it a day? I don’t like sending these messages any more than everyone else likes receiving them. I wasn’t sending them this time last year, was I, or the year before? But if you leave me with no other option except to stay silent while you and Oli try to have me imprisoned on a false account, then I am going to send them and I am going to make sure everyone around you knows what you are trying to do. So please confer with such people as you may in your own independent judgement decide to confer with, and come back to me with an answer. Sorry. This cannot go on.

[Video]

(sorry, had to split into two parts and the second part required some fussing with ffmpeg to get under the size limit - christ i have infinite admiration for the developers, it's a remarkable codebase, but why does ffmpeg require a bloody PhD to use the thing???)

I give up, fucking ffmpeg, next episode to come at some point

@Peter I urge you to do the right thing and tell Sam Cherny the truth - I sincerely don't think you knew until very recently, possibly yesterday - you now clearly do, Oli has engaged you to repeat those slightly creepily Damien-esque messages to me, but there is time to do the right thing and not pinion yourself to a case that is going to collapse once we cross-examine Oli against documentary evidence (https://github.com/swhra/OliEmails, https://media.swhra.uk/, possibly https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK1sBErwRKjk, etc) and then examine Cherny and put to him whatever emerged from Oli's cross-examination 🤷 I think it is maybe telling that my solicitor was willing to do this for sport, or for right or the public good or whatever but not for money

otherwise the only person who will have told Sam Cherny the truth will be me, and I will then move in with my plan to seduce Sam Cherny and become heir to the great Cherny fortune 😈 📈 (I'm kidding, sorry Sam Cherny, I'm sure you're not a bad person and you have a leonine countenance that augurs well for military success, but not for me)

And @Damien, I think you have clearly told Sam Cherny that those videos on YouTube are fabrications. I note that you won't repeat that here in front of me, Edward, maybe Nicholas or Marwan or god knows whom, and I encourage the Chernys to infer what a reasonably street-wise macaque could infer from that.

I can see *snippets* of what Damien is telling you, because it comes out in his messages when he is frustrated and tired of trying to present himself to me as a friend, and it is presumably something like this shameful drivel:

I have to say: I prefer a dysfunctional relationship over a functional one - I'm sure Oli's relationship with Sam Cherny has been very functional to him, but I prefer not to be a function

But clearly that word 'dysfunctional' was felt by you to do some useful work - I don't really think it does, I think when one hears 'dysfunctional' one imagines mad love, and I am willing to bet that Sam Cherny might have hoped to be madly loved by someone

It is a beautiful thing

@Peter De Havilland You told me yesterday that Oli "tells [you] he loves [me]":

I liked that message, because usually one would use the past tense. English uses the present tense for practically fucking everything ("in 1948 Ceylon declares its independence", "I go / I'm going to Cambridge on Saturday", etc) except for reporting speech. For reporting speech it's always "he said he loved you", even if he said it five seconds ago. At most "he told me he loves you". But you went 50 miles out of your way to produce the construction "he tells me he loves you". Extraordinary! @Sam Cherny, any thoughts about that? (The present love, not the grammar, that is.)

To be clear the grammar is fine, it's perfectly grammatical, it's just a happy unusuality!

I say this because, for whatever reason, to accuse an Englishman of an error in language is about as wounding as to accuse him of child rape (which, incidentally, Damien has recently accused me of, along with starting the First World War and many other things).

[Video]

Sorry, that's not the child rape comment, I didn't mean to link it to that, that is just another episode of Damienmas - the child rape accusations (in particular the allegation that I in some way sexually propositioned my houseguest Ryan, who was staying with me because he had been kicked out of semi-independent care – I find that accusation particularly distasteful) are at the end of the Damien chat here: https://damien.chats.swhra.uk/

Damien has found many and inventive ways of trying to salve his conscience and feel better about the unspeakable thing he has done

@Damien I see you are online on Instagram and I would really appreciate it if you could let me spend some of my remaining time before this trial doing something other than chasing you for a reply

If I need to go to Upper Mall (which I have recently learned I am allowed to do) and write @-tagged messages to Sam Cherny (which I have also recently realised I am free to do) in chalk on the alleyway, I will do so, but I think it would be decent of you not to force me to go to this much effort at this point, don't you? You did this, and I should not be in this situation, and should not have had to do even what I have had to do and endure already. Please find some decency within whatever is left of your conscience.

Oh, look, Damien says we have reached an impasse. He can't and won't tell Sam and Steven Cherny that Oli and I have been in a relationship as recently as this year, and he can't and won't deny it in my and Edward's and others' presence either.

Other people have no interest in this, he says. I happen to think Sam Cherny has an interest in this, and I happen to think Damien knows that, or else he wouldn't be so terrified of telling him.

So terrified that he has threatened me with bogus police reports, gone to my family with mock-concern for my 'mental health', and generally done everything he can do to stop me sending these messages to this audience. I will keep sending them and I will keep demanding a response from him until he gives me and the Chernys an answer.

If he thinks there is any prospect that his messages will stop me, I find that hilarious.

Though my next move won't be to pile on messages, it will be to widen the audience quite a bit beyond this one. I think maybe that is fairer than piling pressure on a small number of people.

I'm going to start a small thread with Tudor now, and I am excluding Marwan, because in fairness I think he has probably suffered enough now - he's served his time - Marwan, you are hereby manumitted 👍

Oh look, Damien sees fit to mock me. Damien, when would that date be? When was I dating Oli? In April, when you were in our group chats (https://groups.chats.swhra.uk/)? Would that be before his new, separate relationship with Cherny began on or after April 19th? If you can say that to Cherny, if you can acknowledge to him the truth of my and Oli's relationship so that people stop needing to lie about it, then I will gladly stop messaging all of you.

is that a decent message to send your friend of 12 years after conspiring to make false criminal accusations against him to try to stop him from telling the truth to his fellow @Sam? Are you fellow @Sam's best friend, Damien, you who won't tell him the truth because you want his money, or want it for Oli? Protecting him from mean nasty old me who thought he deserved to know that his partner had carried on a whole parallel double life with me (of which I knew nothing until about 1-2 days before I visited), including regularly contemplating marriage, telling me I was the only person he had ever loved, that he wasn't used to relationships and had never been in one before, etc? I think Sam Cherny deserves to know the basic truth of his life.

And I really rather resent being made out to be attacking him, or a danger to him, or a danger to his family, or to have scared him or his family. I am sorry if they were scared of me, but who scared them of me?

@Sam Cherny Damien is *desperate* not to tell you about my and Oli's relationship - I wonder why, haha. Are you fine with it? Totally fine with it? Straight, unfussed, no problemo if Oli's been dating me? Can he continue dating me? Damien and Peter seem to feel he would like to, but it's almost as though there's some kind of problem involving you 🤔

Also, for what it's worth, I don't need to speak to Sam Cherny. Totally fine if he doesn't want to speak to me. I do want Damien to tell him the truth that he is currently trying to wriggle out of either saying or denying. (Selective muteness, I think they call it, to go with his selective amnesia.)

Were Oli and I in a relationship this year? Did you interact with us as a couple this year?

Were you, for example, in our relationship arguments on the week following April 12th? You can check now. In fact, you've actually been messaging me in those same threads today, lol.

Can we just end this now, Damien, please? It has gone far enough.

Do you want me to go through those threads, which you are still in, message by message?

I can go on and on, and they are on the groups.chats.swhra.uk, but maybe it is nice not to do this? I am not bearing the cost any more, Damien, nor should Sam Cherny, frankly. You are the one lying. You need to solve this by fixing the lie.

Were you in those chats, Damien? Are you in them now? I suspect you are trying to lay the groundwork for something where you tell Sam Cherny that you don't recognise those messages and I must have faked them. Can you check your own Facebook and confirm whether they are there or not? I'm sorry, but you have given me a hell of a lot of reason to distrust you.

Were you in the calls I uploaded to YouTube, from which I have sent clips in this thread? Did you receive a message from Oli (you won't be able to check, because you later deleted your Instagram messages with him, 7 hours or so after my arrest, but you might remember) saying, on April 18th, after I had said I would visit their house to talk to Oli, that he had finally broken up with me? @Sam Cherny, was this how it was presented to you - that Oli had broken up with me an hour or two before I arrived?

I rather strongly suspect that that was *not* how it was presented to you. And note that I had no fucking idea, I think I quite visibly had no idea, that you were Oli's other partner, at the time of my first visit, *or else I'd have said all this to you then*.

I don't really know if Damien knew at that point, but he clearly knows now, and he is trying to avoid confirming either relationship, but he is failing, because he knows us both and– hey, Damien, do you remember messaging me in March to tell me you were so glad Oli and I had worked things out, because we were made for one another? Did you know then?

LOL you deleted it! I just checked on my Mac and it's gone

Extraordinary

Apparently I was conversing with myself

Damien, do you really bloody think that that is going to work? I find this quite something

Cunning, though!

Anyway

Do you remember saying to me on the phone that you could understand why I'd be angry if it were the case that Oli had been cheating on me for two years? I can link you to the exact bit. Please don't think you will wriggle out of this with vague replies and complaints about how very exhausting it is to have a Facebook conversation.

You don't think "much" was faked? I beg your pardon?

I'm sorry, I do not appreciate at all the accusation that I have faked anything. What? Please particularise that.

What are you suggesting I have faked?

Or otherwise please retract that and say that you don't know of anything that I have faked, which is the truth, because I have not faked anything. You are not entitled to lie about me like this to cover up Oli's lie and your lies.

I have been scrupulously honest. The worst thing I have done is occasionally reorder a message to make it easier to read (e.g. if you send messages A, B, C, and then D on the same theme, and I send message A just before you send D and then you reply to A with several more messages, I have sometimes moved D one slot up so it's easier to follow the flow of the conversation - that is literally the extent of it - I have been petrified of even the appearance of dishonesty or manipulation, because I know how you fucking traitors and liars would exploit it)

You should hang your head in shame, or in whatever else you have to hand

Do you remember sending that message to me on March 13th, which you have now deleted? Or are you saying you just received those several fucking messages from me, apparently replying to myself, and thought nothing of it?

I mean, fucking seriously, Damien?

Oh shit, sorry

My bad, sorry

My Messenger hadn't synced

You haven't deleted it

It's just Messenger being a mess

Apologies, sorry, I shouldn't have accused you of that

It's just being very weird - now it's got other messages missing - clearly a bit fucked or mid-sync with its weird Lightspeed engine

I retract that

But yeah, do you remember sending that reply, presumably? So you know we have been dating this year? And you can go and check those group threads?

Remember sending this to Oli? Almost as if you had read and processed those group chats quite attentively?

Thank you, by the way, for that fucking morally degenerate verdict on Oli lying to me for 6 months that he was an Albanian cartel murderer. I still have no idea what the fuck he has on you, or why you are like this towards him. He might as well buy a fucking poodle.

"Oh darling I'm sorry that you have been so cruelly inconvenienced by the consequences of your deranged behaviour"

Anyway I think this settles the question for Sam Cherny

So you were in those chats? You saw Oli saying he loved me and saying "we're boyfriends, are we not?" that week?

He is currently giving an entirely different account to have me prosecuted

Saying that we were ex-boyfriends and that he had declared no contact on April 12th

Do you remember also telling me on May 9th that Oli would come back to me in a few days if I stopped the group chats? That he wasn't going to "leave" me?

You said that after speaking to him, and you told me you could hear in his voice that he was scared of what I had said in group chats, and asking about those.

I assume the reason for that fear was that he was afraid that the information would get to Sam Cherny.

That was always what caused him to break up with me and declare me a stalker. It wasn't because I hit him - that was a week before, and we had a lovely rest of the evening.

Oh, did he correct it when you spoke to him? I don't recall your mentioning that. Maybe you remember it now?

You just told me he was worried about group chats. But maybe he articulated a full 'no contact forever, don't love him at all' theory?

Did he correct your opinion that he wasn't going to "leave" me, and that he was just worried about the group chats, and would get back in touch if I stopped messaging others about our relationship?

If so, you didn't mention that at all to me, mysteriously. You just described his fearful tone about group chats. Hold on one sec, I'll get the messages, though they are on my damien.chats.swhra.uk site too.

"hasn't said much except what was in the group chats"

doesn't really sound like a retraction to me

I'm sorry for doing this, Damien, but he is having me prosecuted and you had refused to clarify

You've substantially clarified now

Thanks for that, at least

👍

Doesn't quite make up for all the rest or for the distress and fear of those months and the possible alternative universes in which I didn't force this out of you, but still

You said on the calls that I posted to YouTube that you felt Oli and I had had a relationship such that he could not have had two relationships of that sort, if you see what I mean (I maybe phrased my question more clearly there)

Yeah, I am not really interested in your moral judgements right now, Damien, but thanks

Do you remember saying this on our call? I can give you a link

Do you now feel that, if Oli were in a relationship with Sam Cherny, you think he has cheated on Sam Cherny and cheated on me?

You said you spoke to him on the phone, and you said he "didn't say much except what was in the group chats" - you had called him because I had asked you to speak to him instead of to me, and to ask him why he had done what he had done, etc

My point at the time was "how dare you come to me and give *me* criticisms"

Which I absolutely 100% maintain now

Is he not? @Sam Cherny?

I will ask him in court too

If he says there that he wasn't in a relationship with Oli, then I will apologise to him for bothering him, absolutely, but I am deeply suspicious, because it has taken you two months to say even what you have said here

You remember sending the message on March 13th, right? I can't recall if you answered that the last couple of times I asked

saying that Oli and I were made for each other and you were so glad we had worked things out

I am trying to pin you down because I suspect you are later going to say in private that this or that was fake

my impression is that that has been a large part of your strategy (it slips out in some of your comments to me)

in truth I have faked nothing, and if you suggest that I have then I would like you to specify what

because I consider this a disgraceful lie to tell of someone who has been meticulously honest to the point of transparency, which you have not

yes, please, I would appreciate that

I will still call him as a witness because I am still deeply suspicious after the last couple of months of stonewalling - i fear you have given him some kind of story - but I will stop the group chats because there'll be no further point in that. I will wait until trial. I may do that anyway just after your messages, to be quite honest, but I would be grateful if Sam Cherny were willing to confirm receipt!

even a thumbs up react would do, really

totally understand if he doesn't want to do more than that

anyway for now i'll stop - good night all - Sam Cherny, any confirmation appreciated but not essential really, though would be lovely - have a good night and i'm sorry about all this, whatever the truth may turn out to be

if the truth really does turn out to be that you were not in a relationship with Oli and are totally fine if he wants to date me (which he does), then I will be profusely sorry and also happier than anyone has ever been

also, Damien, thanks for this at least - I won't do a general moral review of the last months, but I appreciate these answers here

Also hope you're well 🙂 I think you are a decent person. I ask this only because you are Facebook friends with Sam Cherny, and Oli always panicked when I wanted to be boyfriends, or even friends, on Facebook (we ceased to be ages ago due to arguments / drama / mutual blocking, and most of the time we didn't need to be, but he panicked whenever I asked to add him and/or to become boyfriends on Facebook - not sure whether it was adding or relationshipping that was the problem).

This is rather important because I am being criminally prosecuted for trying to tell Sam Cherny what had happened, and Damien, wonderful friend that he is, has refused to tell the truth about what happened, and has instead become totally mute. You can even poke him and he won't respond, like a beefeater. Try it!

I take that as a fairly obvious ‘yes’, and I take that ‘yes’ that Damien must have seen as fairly obvious to be the reason Damien finally admitted my relationship with Oli to Sam Cherny last night. Thanks everyone for the health tips!

Ohhh I see what Peter’s thumbs up reaction meant

Nice work everyone

Also I like "I'm saying this with kindness", haha, like a diacritic or a stage direction. I can't quite see the kindness, not least to Sam Cherny.

I'm fine now on the prosecution front, if that is what the faint 'told you so' undertone of your message is about. Or maybe it's about the relationship that you hid from me. That doesn't bother me very much because (trying to put this softly, and failing, and this direction ending up a bit like your 'saying this with kindness') I know what that relationship was for and what this one was for. But I think someone should have told Sam Cherny. In fairness, thanks for answering honestly the, uh, second time without quite so much trouble as I've had getting the truth out of Damien.

But I do think somebody perhaps should have told the truth to Sam Cherny, from whom this has all been meticulously hidden. But I can't really put that on you - at least, you didn't know how far it had gone until this morning, and you have now more or less told the truth. So ... human beings, eh?

@Damien I'm afraid this confirms my intention to call Sam Cherny as a witness. Again, not a hostile witness and not with any plan to have anyone attack him, but I think it is obviously going to be germane to know what he was told by Oli, that I was right, why I went, what the story looked like from his perspective vs from mine, etc.

Cheers for calling for me mad for several months, cheers Tudor for the health advice and whatever, and I am sorry to Sam Cherny

I am going to start thinking about what stuff I can take down from l'internet for le sake des cherneaux

Am taking down the old named videos, because some of the names are sorta gratuitously cruel. In the process I have accidentally deleted forever the record of Damien's and my June 26 conversation in which he was blatantly lying to me about the messages he deleted from Facebook. That was an unintended mercy. Oh well. Damien, this has not been a great episode, has it?

From Instagram, rather. His whole chat with Oli on Instagram, deleted at 6am on the morning of my arrest, and subsequent total amnesia developed, and a police account crafted to try to have me sent to prison as a 'stalker' rather than the person Oli was still indicating he would come back to if I stopped talking to others about our relationship. What might those messages have contained, Damien? *We will never know.* A tragedy.

Tragedy and mystery!

Perhaps they contained the world's most excellent recipe for meringues!

Perhaps they contained the location of the lost city of Atlantis, or the answer to the timeless question of the historicity of Troy

Perhaps they contained an apology and pleas for my forgiveness and Sam Cherny's which were tragically forgotten and not relayed - let us assume that is what they contained

From Instagram, rather. His whole chat with Oli on Instagram, deleted at 6am the morning after my arrest, and subsequent total amnesia developed, and a police account crafted to try to have me sent to prison as a 'stalker' rather than the person Oli was still indicating he would come back to if I stopped talking to others about our relationship. What might those messages have contained, Damien? *We will never know.* A tragedy.

Next batch of deletions 🗑️ I will leave up the drier playlists (Damien tapes, Oli tapes) where the videos have drier, generally date/timestamp-based names, but I will change the name of the channel to something boring and particularly not Cherny-referencing (that has always been the bit I was least comfortable with, but which I considered justified on the basis that it made it likelier that they would find it)

The one thing I am going to leave up for now is the video/audio of me hitting Oli, because I have referenced that from various places and it is obviously much less embarrassing to the Chernys than to me, though it does embarrass Oli's account of the historic whack (which I have never denied, and which I now dedicate in part to Sam Cherny)

And sorry to my mate @Steve for the 20 million or so emails - sorry, I guess I don't like being wrongly understood - I persist in thinking this could have been handled rather more easily by others if they had been bothered

But cheers Oli and Damien for the ... was it three? three, I think ... nights in police custody, and months under bail conditions, for the crime of trying to tell Sam Cherny the truth while you tried to stop me from doing so and held yourself out as his heroes and protectors

Sorry, I can't say cheers to Oli because I'm legally forbidden to do so, so I retract those cheers, which retraction I am quite OK with

And Peter for your small unflattering role during the Gotterdammerung moment, though I think you didn't know for the vastly larger part of the last few months

FFS. I can't rename the channel for now. Sorry. I will.

Not for Oli's sake but for the Chernys' sake. Sadly this will all probably benefit Oli and Damien somewhat, but oh well.

ex-fucking-traordinary (or extra-fucking-ordinary I suppose)

@Sam Cherny were you told all this before? was I told all this before? it is funny, but i don't quite remember being told all of this before, nor do I think you were

but now we always were! neat! why ever was there so much tension? isn't it nice that Oli and Damien just said "of course, [one Sam], Oli has been also in an incompatible exclusive relationship with [other Sam]", all along, from the very beginning, without any prompting whatsoever?

I suppose we're now going to be treated to the stage where, having tried to imprison me to prevent this from coming to light, we (and particularly you, I suspect) will be treated to a big show of how not a big deal this is, and nobody ever hid it, and it doesn't matter at all

Well, that's fine, Damien, don't worry about moral decency or whatever

I mean, it's funny, I thought I had SEVEN HOURS OF RECORDINGS OF YOU TELLING ME AT GREAT LENGTH THAT THIS WASN'T THE CASE: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf6DCuNmELvw

and SEVERAL MONTHS OF MESSAGES CALLING ME PSYCHOTIC FOR BELIEVING IT WAS: https://damien.chats.swhra.uk/

but what do you know, it turns out everyone told me and why would I ever have thought anything else?! what a silly goose I am

similar for Sam Cherny I imagine, but I don't know because EVERYONE HAS TRIED DESPERATELY TO KEEP ME AWAY FROM HIM EVER SINCE I FIRST FORMED THE SUSPICION THAT THIS WAS WHAT HAD BEEN HAPPENING

funny, that, given everyone always knew about this Non-Big Deal™

which nobody, certainly no friends of 12 years, tried to have me imprisoned to stop me from talking about

jesus fucking christ, you people have no fucking aidos

oh, no, now we're back to 'no Oli-Cherny relationship' again - wowzers, this is a rollercoaster ride - how long till it careens back to 'of course there was an Oli-Cherny relationship and also a simultaneous incompatible Oli-me relationship concealed from one another for several years - who ever said otherwise? you say that as if there was anything to hide about the existence of both relationships'?

also it is spelled 'Cherny'

it means 'black'

like your soul

here again is my favourite segment, with the self-destructing Instagram screenshot of the supposed email from Oli to the police, saying that he and Sam Cherny were not in a relationship

[Video]

was that you lying to me, or Oli lying to you? it's hard to tell, really, it feels like it could have been either of you

can I trust that this will be the end of the period in which you would have presumed to call *me* a liar and insinuate that I fabricated recordings like these?

if I were you, I would just say when you knew, which is more or less the one partially redeeming thing one could say in your position, along with why you saw fit to try to have me imprisoned for telling Sam Cherny the truth that you had that day refused to tell him yourself

perhaps you'd like to account for that to him

and to me

as you long before now fucking should have done

and Tony Blair can apologise for the fucking Protection from Harassment Act, jesus christ what a piece of shit law

the Protection for Cunts Act

well, you first, then him

I think Divy's family knows him

but that is secondary - the Act exists, and it was you, old friend, who tried to have me imprisoned under it, so that I wouldn't be able to tell Sam Cherny about this Tiny, Microscopic Deal™

which you're now back to denying, despite how Totally Fine And Insignificant and Never-Denied a Deal it is

@Sam Cherny @Steve Cherny is Sam Cherny going to say in court (not as a hostile witness, not as someone to whom I am trying to impute any wrongdoing, I hasten to add) that he was never in a relationship with Oli?

I imagine that would feel like something of a brutal demotion

in fact I don't need to imagine, because I've experienced that forcible demotion over the last few months

for no reason, despite this Non-Big Deal™

I think you misspelled "SAM I BEG ABJECTLY FOR YOUR FORGIVENESS"

or several Sams

but I'm glad the moral obscenity and inversion of your position over the last few months is finally becoming clear to someone other than me

perhaps your amnesia has subsided along with your aphasia, Damien, and you remember what you and Oli discussed on the night of May 27th-28th?

in those messages that you deleted and which were subsequently erased from your hippocampus while retaining the ability to answer certain limited safe questions about them

you can't recall the thing, but you can answer questions about the thing you can't recall, like homomorphic encryption - remarkable!

perhaps you can answer this question: what did you and he say to one another in those deleted messages before he adopted an account based on lies that you could have contradicted?

and didn't contradict

am I mad (don't worry, I suppose I am) to suspect that you PERHAPS gave him to understand that you were not going to contradict his false account?

which, again, you did not, until absolutely forced to early this morning

i think that seems a reasonable supposition

i would get a solicitor before answering that, tbh

don't worry

yes, i've asked you to do that for several months - please now do so

i hope it doesn't violate my bail conditions to say that, but i don't fucking care about this any more

this whole thing is an absolute disgrace

i have a whole fucking website asking you to do that and to tell the Chernys what you just told them last night: https://damien-mcmullen.swhra.uk/ I have archived it several times on the Internet Archive, so there are dated copies. please do not give me this "you never asked, I just had this idea for the first time" act.

there are two possibilities now: (1) you do actually give me the messages -> they don't contain anything criminally/perjuriously incriminating and the only reason you couldn't give them was that they made mention of the Cherny relationship - I can't really see how this could conceivably work, and it would require you to have spontaneously decided not to contradict his false account and for him to have given it without having any idea whether you would or not (2) you don't give them and this is just more blagging (much more likely imo)

still at least now you're blagging in front of others

at least this time I won't get the blagging followed by the accusations of mental illness and threats of police reports when I dare to remind you of what you promised to do and haven't done

gosh it is nice to break down the compartments

also please try to make sure Oli is not scared and that he takes his insulin

he makes safe noises when he is ok

god it is depressing reading my talk about racial abuse on that site - truth be told I didn't give a fuck about his weird racialised comments, and I don't think either of us understood them seriously, but what that was was a desperate attempt to get someone to fucking listen to me

on the bright side, Damien's Promised Email has finally come, though not in the form of an email, since email no longer exists in this Year of Our Lord Zorp 2173 A.D.(Z.)

^ Grand Theft Auto VI has since come, so that reference is a bit outdated too

am I still a stalker, I wonder? or am I your friend of 12 years whom you betrayed, lied about, lied to, called a stalker, and then said "haha, look, anything you say to defend yourself proves you're a stalker and therefore dangerous to me and the Chernys and everyone" and had no compunction about that?

i have had to bear this so that Oli could hide his infidelity and you could hide your wrongdoing, and you don't even have the decency to apologise, but oh well

i suspect i won't get those messages from Oli either, will I?

Just to recap, you're refusing to do the thing that you spontaneously offered about an hour ago to do?

Gosh this is much nicer when others can see it too

So you won't do it?

Either do it, or don't say you won't, because honestly this is getting ridiculous now

Or at least, if you are not going to do it, stop doing this thing where you make promises you have no intention of keeping, and try to claim credit from them - if you say "I can get the messages, you're going to be so embarrassed", then you should actually get them, and if you don't then you should not say it

Because after a while this trick stops working

Jews, one of my favourite people from the Holocaust was Zofia Kossak. She was a Catholic anti-Semite (in other words a Pole), by no means fond of the Jews. Still, when they started having a Holocaust*, she wrote the following letter: https://protest.doc.swhra.uk/ She then started the only group in Poland devoted to saving Jews (making that line about not being able to save anyone slightly coy), and eventually went to Auschwitz (though survived) for doing so. I say this to make the point that people can surprise you! *ok, 'the Holocaust' is sorta a postwar concept, but I mean Aktion Reinhard, the sending of the Jews to the really properly lethal camps in the east (Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec). If you want a good cunt, Reinhard Heydrich was truly the cunt of cunts, possibly worse than Damien.

What?

'Honey'?

Are you saying you are going to get those messages from Oli?

ah, sorry

yes

ok, I will thank you when you give them

if you could give a screen recording, that would be best - should be easier than getting text, at least on a phone, and considerably more trustworthy

(obviously not perfect, but the kind of work necessary to fake a screen recording is not work that I consider Oli - who has barely just wrapped his head around the concept of steam power - is likely capable of at relatively short-ish [depending where one starts the clock] notice)

(put it this way, I would be considerably more assuaged by a screen recording than I am by nothing, and if the conversation is innocent then producing one should be easier than arguing)

i would also, if possible, express a slight preference for phone screen recording over desktop screen recording, just because editing HTML is slightly more within reach for most normal people, and, under sufficient stress, possibly even Oli

Incidentally tomorrow I turn 30

I had quite forgotten

So that's interesting

God I like this one from Damien - group chats = "obscene", perjury and perverting the course of justice = fine

Why on earth group chats (what I would call 'society') is 'obscene' in Damien's strange moral code is quite beyond me anyway - I suppose it had something to do with the fact that Oli was conducting two relationships that he rather wanted to keep separate, and so the existence of society and great webs of bonds between the people on this island was unhelpful to him, and Damien readily supplied pseudo-moral indignation because that is apparently Damien's function now

Anyway I can see I am not going to get these messages, and I know anyway what they contain, and I would suggest to Damien that he avoid speaking in moral tones again

If I report it to the police it will be solely out of a Bractonian ethic of responsibility as a subject to report crime - I don't expect it to go anywhere without my chasing it (gone are the days of _Rex sequitur non obstante quod nullus sequitur_ - now crimes are basically private suits, and determination wins, as with trial by ordeal/combat/etc back in the day), and I won't chase it, I will consider my duty done - nonetheless I will keep https://damien-mcmullen.swhra.uk/ up because I consider that fitting punishment

(I will try to fix that bloody card image, sorry)

So you won't retrieve the messages that you have now said several times you would retrieve, presumably because I asked for a screen recording from the mobile app, which, though easiest to capture, is hardest to alter or fake. Thanks, Damien. Please don't speak to me like that again. Your judgements grow stronger as they grow weaker.

Also, I said Heydrich was *possibly* worse than you. Obviously that was a bit of a joke, but I really don't hold you in terribly high regard.

Or possibly any regard.

Have a day.

Just shut up, Damien, the time when you could talk like this has ended.

Anyway I think I've fixed the card thing: https://damien-mcmullen.swhra.uk (fingers crossed)

fuck

goddammit haha

will fix

maybe cached by Facebook for a while

'involuntary Greek chorus' = :chefkissemoji:

(this is a personal favourite theme of these chats so far)

anyway, it's been fun being falsely criminally prosecuted with/by you, but imma go get some honey roasted cashew nuts, so I'll see you anon

it is easy to feel bad for Damien now, because he is pathetic now that it has turned out this way, but he wasn't so pathetic when he thought he had the upper hand

i recall his first message after conspiring to make false statements to the police to have me prosecuted

"wouldn't have happened if you hadn't kept badgering on and dragging people into group chats"

note: not "wouldn't have happened if you'd stopped trying to have a relationship with Oli whom you were stalking", but "wouldn't have happened if you hadn't spoken to people and started group chats"

apparently Damien and Oli have the right to make false accusations to discipline their spare boyfriends, and that is fine, and then they have the gall to accuse *me* of coercive control

this is the most fucked up and revolting, morally inverted, obscene thing I have ever seen

and I don't think you ought to speak like that, to say the very fucking least, Damien

that time is over

though it was a joy while it lasted, for you, I'm sure

wasn't for me

just give me the messages or say nothing

no more of this shit - until you show me what you discussed that night, you have no right to speak

and certainly not to speak down, and to me

I suggest you think long and hard about demanding nice speech from me at this point, Damien

show me the fucking messages, now

nice enough for you?

I was undeservedly nice to you for months, and not you to me

yes, Oli has them, as we discussed

or maybe he doesn't - if he doesn't, then that says something itself

are you now going to go with that as the least worst option? he doesn't have them?

just answer my questions, Damien, I have no more time for this crap

are you refusing to get the messages?

I can't be bothered with this, Damien - I have already said that I won't pursue it criminally beyond filing a report, but I will leave my website https://damien-mcmullen.swhra.uk (sorry in advance to the Chernys for the likely-still-there card) live, because we all know what you did, and I will cite these messages as further confirmation

to be honest I prefer that as a method of punishment - I don't think prison really does anything to or for anyone, I think it's a waste of time and resources - if we still had whipping, I might push for that, but we don't

@Sam Cherny I might be interested in speaking to you at some point about those Ethereum blockchain website thingies that you have one of - I think for once I might have a use for the blockchain here (in terms of creating a record that I can't be compelled to erase, or punished for failing to erase, later on)

I am mindful of the PHA 1997 – I think it would be a stretch here, but if I have learned one thing it is that it is a preposterous law, and the main law in this country that defends shitty people from discussion of the shitty things they have done regardless of the truth of those discussions, so anything is possible

For now I am going to make another site for this conversation, and I will see to it that all these sites (those concerning you, Damien) stay up forever, so that people will know who you are. @Edward now knows who you are. I have known for several months now. @Sam Cherny and @Steve Cherny now know - they are probably somewhat more concerned with Oli than with the state of your soul, but I think this shows the project that they have been used as pawns in: to have an affair with me, to expect me to tolerate endless abuse and ill treatment, and then to enlist them, as I said in my first email to them, to play a moral role far worse than the decent role they took themselves to be playing: https://emails.swhra.uk/#message-email_2026-04-20_103604_samrobinsonadams_Fwd__Oliver_Babington_Wilson_f-eml

To wit, Mrs Cherny, or Mrs Agether or Agather or Agatha or god knows what – I have no idea if that's a middle name or a retained maiden name – was being enlisted to essentially perjure herself (I suspect/expect) about having seen me try to break into their house (an insane claim) on the assumption that I wouldn't know about that second camera that she and Oli didn't mention. I don't think she is evil. I think she probably saw herself as doing the right thing by slightly wrong means, rather than the right means leading to the wrong outcome. Instead she was being enlisted to do the wrong thing by the wrong means and expose herself to some not inconsiderable legal risk, because I knew more and was better able to scrutinise that evidence than Oli had almost certainly led her to believe.

@Sam Cherny When did Oli tell you that I was planning to visit on May 27th? Did he or Damien tell you anything? They both knew in the morning. I suspect they didn't tell you anything, and exploited your family's surprise and fear, and either suggested I had different motives or pretended not to know what my motives were. Then they took the fear that they had produced in you and used it against me to punish me for telling you the truth about your own life.

I had asked Damien to tell you that morning. I had asked Oli to tell you a day or two earlier, I can't recall the exact chronology. I figured it out in about a second when your sister liked my Instagram photo of Oli.

Did I what? Ask you, or ask Oli?

Yes, I asked you here, and I asked you again in the following days (which I'll get in a sec) - you read and ignored my messages that day

Here you said, very articulately, "wouldn't ask me break your stalking conditions":

I was wrong in what I said there - it would actually have broken my original police bail conditions that were in place at that time, though not the ones in place now - I can't remember if I knew and didn't care, or if I misremembered which people it governed - either way, it's a lovely question from you, Damien, who was responsible for drafting the lies that generated those conditions

who was? who were? probably who were

So that demonstrates nicely what you expected all of this to do

Shut the fuck up, you rat, would you? I'm tired of being spoken to like this by you

If you want any right to speak to me like that, you go and you get your messages and you show me and us what was discussed

If not, you drop the condescension, because you have no height from which to descend

Get the messages, Damien, or shut the fuck up

Get the messages, or stop wasting my time

I have no desire to 'navigate' any interaction with you - I want you to do as you said you would, and give me what is due me

This is pathetic and I have no time for it, Damien. You won't give me the messages. Done. Conversation over. That's fine.

By the way, @Sam Cherny (and ignoring Damien's moral decay which hopefully @Edward or someone can talk to him about), I meant to follow that up with this which (from recorded case/relationship discussions with my family, necessitated by Oli & Damien's lies) which might explain why I came, and the significance of your sister's Instagram like, etc.

[Video]

More recordings discussing the case and my and Oli's relationship, in case useful to Sam Cherny or the Chernys – I (notably unlike Oli and Damien) take the position that one cannot possibly have or share too much information: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1s2Q7Vinf8&list=PLegL1D-FLSrk&index=6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3GxH796j2o&list=PLegL1D-FLSrk&index=7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR7tlFpREmE&list=PLegL1D-FLSrk&index=8

@Damien This, incidentally, and all of my sites and my emails etc, is how one responds when accused of a crime one did *not* commit

Here you repeat that view, that none of this would have happened if I hadn't "badgered on" and "started group chats". You modulate your vocal tone in a manner reminiscent of how civilised people do communicate moral disapproval of something wrong. Perhaps, @Damien, now that it's clear that you were one of the people responsible for making these false accusations, you'd like to explain why you decided to make false police reports to try to effect your own law, namely that I should not be allowed to talk to those around me about how Oli has treated me?

send the fucking messages, Damien, or shut the fuck up

I am sick of your attempts to recover the moral high ground by whinging that I'm too upset at your false criminal accusations

until you send those messages, I do not want to be reminded of your existence

what the fuck did you expect, you fucking rat?

that I'd be calm?

send the fucking messages, or close your mouth

i am sick of your whining

you're not engaging anyway, so fuck off

stop talking

you make me sick and furious, what the fuck right do you think you have to come here and try to pass judgement on me? that time is fucking over

do not come back until you have an account of yourself that you can give

@Edward Hagger Would you kindly explain to Damien why attempting to have someone wrongfully imprisoned is generally considered bad manners and angering? I cannot bring myself to engage with this fucking ghoul.

If he won’t show the messages, fine. I do ask that he stop speaking to me like this.

You have told me that they are about me.

You have also promised to get them, several times, in this thread alone.

The lying doesn't work when everyone else is here.

Oh, go hang yourself

Alternatively, show me the messages that you have promised to show me

I have no more time for your fucking whinging

another great clip - I was very fucking right not to accept your pseudo-therapeutic crypto-moral instruction to Move On With My Life™, and to instead move on with yours

Also, honestly, why are we humouring this amnesia thing anyway? I briefly lose track of obvious reality here. You do not actually have amnesia covering that one specific night, and amnesia that lets you assert what was not discussed ("it wasn't conspiracy") while being unable to answer basic questions like "what was your attitude to my arrest?", "did he ask you anything?", "was it one message or many?", etc. Actually I think you half-answered "one message or many" (you said not just one), but this is ridiculous. Why can we not at this point just tell the truth? I don't want to hurt Oli, ok? I do want to hurt you, but unfortunately in this instance you have a human shield in the form of someone I love irrationally and despite everything he does, and it would be magnificently hard to prosecute you without prosecuting him for an account given by him, so, though deeply disgraceful, I think you are safe from prison. I will probably report it, at least I ought to, but I will anyway and they never do anything unless you force them to, and often not even then. (The coercive control / stalking borg is an exception and I remember this from when I reported Sam Cherny and got 2 calls back within 30 minutes of submitting my report at 2am, and then 4 the next day, haha. For whatever reason they are over-funded and desperate for people to investigate/prosecute.)

^ To be honest, I prefer deep disgrace. I think the appropriate punishment for this is deep disgrace. I am still planning to create my social credit bureau as a general solution for this.

I would also be happy with death. I think the best legal system would be: whipping, occasional death, and prison for cases where somebody is a dangerous lunatic but can’t reasonably be said to deserve either whipping or death. (An interesting case would be someone like Ricky Ray Rector, who mentally debilitated himself - tried to shoot himself but did the temple thing and lobotomised himself - but *after* committing his crimes. Tricky one.) We didn’t actually hang that many people before we abolished hanging. We abolished widespread and common hanging in the 1840s, and by the 1960s it was only for murder and (vastly rarely) treason & similar, and of a few hundred convicted murderers per year we hanged maybe 0-2. The criteria were a bit daft (they were very scared of guns at the time, so murder with a gun -> automatic death penalty) but the principle made sense. And whipping because it is cheap and somewhat unpleasant, and, believe it or not, a degree of unpleasantness makes punishments more effective. We have trouble with that nowadays. My mum thinks my views are too harsh and suggests community service is a better idea, and to be honest I like that if it can work. But some people would best serve the community by being turned back into nitrogen. It remains to be seen whether Damien is such a person or not.

Hahahahahahahahahaha, fucking brilliant. Messages, Damien.

^ To be honest, I thought I was being quite generous by saying it remained to be seen...

@Octavian Did Damien know about Oli and Cherny's relationship when he said this on April 18th? (Don't worry, I don't really expect an answer, and maybe you don't actually know. But I find a bit of compartment-breaking never seems to do any harm when one is telling the truth, which I am.)

My best guess is that Damien might have known but through Oli privately rather than being known to have known - but what do I know? Very little, apparently

Though perhaps slightly more than Sam Cherny

You know, Jews, come to think of it, I got my dad a copy of Kellner's diaries for his birthday some years ago – did I tell this story already? – and months later my grandma came over to dog-sit and, leafing through the book, recognised the surname of the rotten and mean-spirited judge (a sort of parochial Freisler) as being that of some family friends. He was their father. We convened a kind of family conference over dinner about what she ought to do – whether to tell them or whether not to tell them. This was not just "your father did some bad things" but "your father was a small, mean-spirited, spiritually rotten kind of man, sorta like Damien, the sort of man who laughs at the wretched and derives satisfaction from picking on people weaker than him". In the end we decided that we had no right to keep that from them, that only they could decide whether they wanted to know, and the only way for them realistically to have that decision put in front of them was by telling them. I say the same about Oli's infidelity to Sam Cherny. Luckily in the case of the family friends, it turned out they already knew, which was a relief. Not so lucky here....

I should probably stop starting messages with 'Jews', haha, but I mean it warmly, I have known and liked a lot of them (mostly from school), and I have a lot of relevant anecdotes (mostly from being part-German, as you can see)

I'm sure Damien will have some criticism for me, though

Does Oli do the 'Himmler' routine with you, Jews? I somehow don't know - does he, @Peter? I don't recall a big Himmler focus in any of the clips Oli has shown me. I remember some nonce-related stuff. Of course, your nonce routine, which Oli seems to think is the funniest thing since sliced bread (he can be adorable sometimes).

Shit, I’m a Jew. I’d quite forgotten. Or not a practising Jew but eligible for Jewhood, you know, by the rules of descent, if I recall correctly. My mum’s mum’s mum was a Jewish girl from Essex who was impregnated by a Ceylonian sailor, *went to Ceylon to try to find that sailor* (slightly bold plan I have to say), obviously did not find him, and ended up marrying the native doctor who delivered the baby and having two more kids (inc my grandma). So I think that qualifies me to be a Jew in some sense, right, even if nobody after that point actually observed the faith?

@Damien Let's start with an easier question, then. When did you first message Oli about this, or receive a message from Oli about this, that day? Was it after I was arrested or was it before? Before I arrived?

You said you had seen a video of my arrest, presumably captured on the doorbell camera (the one on the left in the card that I can't seem to get rid of here -> https://damien-mcmullen.swhra.uk). Where did you see that? Was it sent to you directly? Posted on social media? Something else? Why was it shared?

How do you think most reasonable citizens, who perhaps support stalking laws and coercive control laws because they are explained on the news as being necessary to stop escalating, perhaps ultimately lethal domestic domination, would feel about your use of the law here? You have described it to me as absurd. You have laughed at the very thought of applying that archetype to me. So why did you do this? Is it not an especially base kind of perfidy to feign vulnerability and exploit people's best instincts? This is the sort of thing that leads to no quarter. I remember my late friend Lars talking about that in Bosnia. If one hides soldiers in ambulances, nobody gets medics when they need one. If one feigns surrender and then detonates a grenade, nobody gets taken prisoner. Same for these stalking and control laws. Do you not feel shame about this, about tricking decent people into being used as a mechanism of relational discipline and punishment – control, in short?

Anyway, I digress. I wonder what Lars would have made of this, probably lots, but I digress. I'll get back to factual questions. *When did you first begin to discuss my visit with Oli? What did you tell Sam Cherny? What was the nature of your discussion? Do you want a solicitor and to disengage, or was your conduct non-criminal?*

And why have you never once until now thought to do the decent thing? It was my messaging Tudor, I am pretty sure, that prompted you to finally answer (in the other thread: https://damien-friends.chats.swhra.uk/#msg-fb-damien-small-group-393). At least, your eventual reply came about 30 mins after that, after 5 weeks of stonewalling.

_slight historical caveat to the Lars thing, maybe Pacific theatre of WWII technically a better example of the dynamic I describe, but probably at risk of tangent here_

@Damien Still hiding? I was looking forward to being "so embarrassed when I realise the truth"!

A bit of housekeeping while I wait: @Peter De Havilland you're free to leave but also free to stay, since you're not structurally required; @Octavian Augustin likewise ish, though potentially helpful to have (I could always drag you back in if needed); Edward, Damien, and Sam Cherny (not tagging because no action required for conscripts) are conscripted, while Steve(n) Cherny can probably leave if he likes but might be drafted in if at any point we lose Sam Cherny.

Haha, off like a flash

whenever you have a spare moment, in the 151 days before I stand trial for your lies

oh neat, i just turned 30 a couple of hours ago

apparently by the law of Damien and others I must now become desperate and morally sordid

though funnily enough i feel much the same as I did three hours ago

anyway, @Damien, recalling how I consoled you on your thirtieth birthday three years ago, you could perhaps give me the thirtieth birthday present of explaining your now-failed attempt to imprison me as something I was not rather than admit what I was to Oli (and am, if we're honest) (which has now been grudgingly admitted)

if I had been less dogged and if your attempts to embarrass and frighten me had worked – if I had pursued everything through the Proper Legal Channels* – this would have been a pretty gloomy day for me and my family *this phrase gently blurring the difference between institutions that administer the law, and institutions (such as society) the use of which _does not violate_ the law

I don't know what was actually your thirtieth birthday, but I remember you crying and drinking on Bond St on what you certainly said was your thirtieth birthday. For some reason we watched a clip from a debate between Chris Hitchens and Ann Widdecombe about the Catholic church. I suppose Ireland, guilt (now nowhere to be seen), etc. Let me find our messages from back then, one mo.

Your birthday is the 26th June, right? There was a day when I came back from my grandma's to find you drinking on your birthday, but I can't really figure out from our texts what day it was. You said it was your thirtieth birthday, but you were very drunk, I suppose, so who knows? Sorry, I'm just on a call with dear old Lauren but I will try to figure out these dates shortly!

I'm more explaining why I understood it as your thirtieth, and why perhaps that might not have been true – argh, god knows, look, I am not sure I have the mental and social bandwidth for whatever this conversation is, but I will check shortly, and perhaps you for your part could check and explain why and exactly in what form you agreed with Oli to support for several months (and presumably the intention was to support until and through my trial) a false account on which he had me prosecuted

Sorry, the birthday or the course-of-justice-perverting? Haha

For the record I think it is highly unlikely that it is ever going to be pursued - the bar for prosecution is quite high, and I don't want to get Oli entangled in something like that, so if I file a report it will be a perfunctory "I am a subject of the realm and I really ought to report a breach of the peace so as to be in decent moral standing" report, not something that I am actually going to pursue

Of course I shouldn't *need* to pursue it - the King should pursue it - but that doesn't really happen nowadays

It is mainly the course-of-justice-perverting that interests me, but I am quite happy to discuss the matter of the birthday/mis-ageing too(!) - actually you could join my call with Lauren if you wanted to, haha. I don't mind. All I remember is that you said it was your thirtieth birthday. Or maaaybe you might have said you were nearly thirty. It's possible. I had remembered it as your thirtieth birthday, with some certainty, but who knows?

I think so!

She is a conciliatory nice lady with a therapeutic affect

The very same

Yes

But that doesn't mean she's going to be corrupt, haha

Maybe best to do without a third person though? I think recording is probably good enough without having a third person

OK let me get her consent

One has to get women's consent nowadays

Very frustrating

I am not sure if her consent is forthcoming but let me see

She asks what the anticipated outcome would be? She seems quite cautious about the idea, haha

I.e. by answering the question?

I am concerned that I am going to be 'put at peace' in some other, more vague and therapeutic manner

She asks: what is peace? I think this is a rather large question for a thirty minute call, haha

She is very much real

I am on the phone with her as we speak - it is quite mentally confusing to have both these conversations at once

I am also sharing my screen and so it is slightly like she can hear me thinking - my typing is like the inside of my head

Anyway, no, sorry, Lauren maybe bad idea, may just message again at 12

I would say the questions to be answered are these:

I think, on reflection, a third person is a bad idea, or if we add a third person it should be a third person acquainted with the matter

Maybe Edward or Sam Cherny - I would obviously regard Sam Cherny as a great catch, but unlikely, and Edward probably best, or Jamison or some similar person of agreed integrity and some acquaintance with the matter

I would say if we must add a third person: Edward or Jamison

But I would favour just a recorded conversation

I am loth to not record, but I will not use the recording as legal evidence - you can use a vocoder like an illegal immigrant or abused woman in a BBC interview

Edward and Jamison would tick that box, I'm happy with either, and I think we agree on their integrity (?)

OK, will message you again at 12 once finished with Lauren and I will try to drag Edward or Jamison into this

Chloroform perhaps useful

I don't think they need to say much, really, do they? The point of it would presumably just be that they are present. But I am quite happy to just speak on a recorded call alone. (With you, that is, not literally alone myself, haha.) What would the third person add? I am happy enough with a recorded call. If you're worried that I will publish it, then, well, to be honest, I think that is maybe the cost of what you have done. You and Oli have made a very public allegation against me. It was untrue. That hasn't stopped you from gossiping about it, sharing videos of my arrest, and probably much more besides. I don't think you then get to complain and demand that any confession be private and secret. I think the truth of what happened needs to be known. I won't pursue it criminally, and if you're concerned that anything you say might be used in some kind of prosecution, we could find ways of weakening it as evidence so that it couldn't be used for that. I am not really bothered by that. But I don't think you get to make the lies public and then put the correction in tiny font on page 32, like in the tabloids.

I am being – as I have always said – pretty damn reasonable in response to conduct that is well beyond any kind of ordinary limits. My boyfriend cheated on me. Most people would be angry enough about that. To then have my friend of 12 years turn around and deny that I was ever in a relationship with him at all (you have now told the truth, but you refused to for several months, and were presumably hoping to hold out until trial), with the result that I was prosecuted as a stalker and implied to be mad for what was, in reality, my quite reasonable and decent visit to tell the other boyfriend the truth, is ... quite something, Damien. I think you owe me an explanation of what happened, at the very least, before we get to questions of apology etc. I think the call thing is a stupid idea that I am losing interest in. I would prefer it if you could just tell the truth here. *What did you talk about with Oli that day? When did the conversation about my visit begin? Daytime? Before I arrived? After? After my arrest?*

And what did you discuss? I think we have had enough of the amnesia fiction. It was a mistake to indulge it. You have had plenty of time to refresh your memory and ask Oli what you discussed. So what did you discuss that is so bad and that you won't hand over? Please now tell me the actual truth. If I don't think I have got it, I will use the legal process to get it, and that will have worse consequences.

(I will ultimately ask for a screen recording and probably then for a signed URL generated by Meta's export tool, which is probably the one genuinely trustworthy kind of evidence, but I first need to figure out how Meta's very complicated JS/WASM bundle actually works on that page and how I can write some code to enable you/Oli to get and give me that URL so I can download it from a trusted source.)

Yeah, we did. I would now like the truth, Damien.

Precisely, Damien.

So please give me the truth.

When did the conversation begin, for starters? Before I arrived?

Just answer the fucking questions, Damien, I am really sick of this now.

When did the conversation start?

If you don’t answer them now, I am going to make a serious police report and I am going to pursue it. So I’ll give you a few minutes to consider.

Either answer now or I will get the answer out of you through a process that may well end in your and Oli’s being imprisoned for several years.

If you answer, I will not. I may make a perfunctory report but I won’t use what you say here. You can say it wasn’t proven that you were the one using your account, etc. In fact, hell, make a different account and add me and then you can argue that it was me talking to myself under a different account. Would that work? That would make it legally safe.

Flame out of this discussion in a way that you can later defend as genuine departure and disengagement, then make a new burner account, add me, and I will add that account to this thread. Then explain. Then if I report it you can say it was just me.

I’m tired of this, Damien. @Edward Hagger could you please ask Damien to give me a proper answer?

I think I have been put through enough crap by now and am owed a truthful account of what Damien did.

I don’t give a fuck, Damien. Explain to me what happened that day and why you deleted your messages and then refused to tell the truth about my and Oli’s relationship until you finally cracked under pressure two days ago.

What did the two of you agree? What involvement did you have in devising the account Oli gave, and what commitment did you make not to contradict it?

You have never said it to the Chernys and you avoided saying it in court. You ignored my email asking you to testify. I strongly suppose the Chernys were told that my YouTube recordings were fabrications.

What I mean by 'cracked' is your replies in the other group thread (the one with most of the same participants as this one) about two days ago, confirming that Oli and I were in a relationship and that the evidence I have presented was authentic, which I am nearly certain was not what @Sam Cherny had previously been told.

I would now like you to explain what you and Oli discussed that day. If you do not, I will assemble all this as evidence and I will take it to the police and pursue it hard as perverting the course of justice, because that will be the only way to figure out the truth. If you don't, I may make a report (we can find a way for you to confess without its being legally admissible if you want) but I won't pursue it hard, I will file it just out of civic duty.

You decide, Damien, but you are not going to get away without setting the record straight and the truth becoming known. You were the one who decided to do this, and the burden will be borne by you, not me.

Now, when did your conversation that day begin? Why can you not answer even that question?

Did it begin before or after I arrived?

I.e. did you begin discussing my visit before or after I arrived?

I told you on Facebook. I told him too. Did you begin discussing my visit before or after I arrived?

Yes, in the morning. Did you begin discussing my visit before or after I arrived?

With Oli, did you begin discussing my visit before or after I arrived?

Did you begin discussing my visit before or after I arrived?

Did you begin discussing my visit before or after I arrived?

OK. Thanks. After my arrest, or before?

OK, neat, thanks. Why did Oli message you about it? What was the substance of the conversation? I will subsequently ask you for the messages, so this is just a chance to give your presentation of them first.

Unless they have been deleted on his end. If they have, then ... I am seriously disappointed and not sure what I will do. Probably will ask for metadata to establish that they weren't deleted today or recently. If they were deleted at the time, then maybe I will let it slide, but I don't want you deleting them today and then expecting to be able to get away with that.

I assume you have discussed this since, probably on Instagram, and those messages are subject to a preservation order, and ... wait, hold on, it is also *possible* that that preservation order captured the original messages too (since things are only ever tombstoned, not deleted immediately – I think Facebook uses Cassandra for this, and I know how deletion works in Cassandra intimately, haha).

(too many Cassandra compaction incidents handled as an oncaller)

Anyway, sorry, yes, what did you discuss? What involvement did you have in drafting the account he gave to the police? He clearly knew that you would not contradict him, didn't he? He said that he had no contact with me after April 12th. He did have contact with me, and you alone could have testified to that (and your testimony would be worth more than documentary evidence in this kind of process). He knew you would not contradict him. Did you tell him you would not contradict him? Did you implicitly tell him by helping shape that account? Why did he give that account and trust that you would not contradict it?

He knew that you would not testify, if I asked you to do so, that you had been privy to conversations between us after that date.

Why and on what basis did he know that? What undertaking did you give?

Implicitly or explicitly

And what part did you play in the creation of that particular chronology?

Why and on what basis did he know that? What undertaking did you give?

Why and on what basis did he know that, what undertaking did you give, and what part did you play in the creation of that particular chronology?

In plain English: what part did you play in the lie, and why was he so confident that you wouldn't contradict the lie?

That we had no contact after April 12th, for one

That is quite a technical and narrow point but it is also the most definite one to focus on

Did you talk about dates and chronologies that night? I am going to get your messages after this, Damien, since I don't trust your honesty at all. If you carry on replying like this, I may just ditch this conversation and say: messages or police. This is a chance for you to give me your spin first. It is not a chance for you to be a pain in the ass and thereby get out of it.

Also, has Oli deleted his messages or not? Have you asked him? You must surely have asked him, and the fact that you haven't said he's deleted them gives me to understand that he has not, but this is a chance for you to correct me if I'm wrong.

Alright. And why did you delete your copy, then? Would you like to give me an honest account? I am not going to stop until you tell me the truth and show me the discussion about me that you had and deleted before he gave the false account that you have spent months trying not to contradict either to the Chernys or in court.

I think you know perfectly well what I think you discussed. At this point I am willing to leave my website up that makes that accusation, and let you bring a libel action if I'm wrong.

I said that you have painstakingly avoided, for about 5 weeks under not inconsiderable social pressure, saying that Oli and I were in a relationship as recently as this year, and that you were in those group chats with us. See this call, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8rVxjn2RJY&list=PLf6DCuNmELvw&index=1

And it seems quite obvious that Oli wouldn't have given that account unless he trusted that you would not contradict it, because you alone could contradict it (at least on the April 12th point and as a witness, as opposed to my documentary evidence that contradicts it but is less privileged in court and can be dismissed as fake to the Chernys).

Therefore, at the very least, you gave him to understand that you would not say that his lie was a lie. At worst you helped him prepare and shape that lie. I want to know which. And I will find out which.

What did you discuss that night? Please recount that conversation, at least in broad strokes, which you remember.

What did you discuss that night? Please recount that conversation, at least in broad strokes, which you remember.

What did you discuss that night? Please recount that conversation, at least in broad strokes, which you remember.

What did you discuss that night? Please recount that conversation, at least in broad strokes, which you remember.

What did you discuss?

Answer my question, Damien.

This is seriously unimpressive.

Or I will keep asking it in front of ever larger audiences of our friends.

Has this gone well for you already? Do you really want to drag this out further?

You have done a vile thing, and I am being pretty fucking reasonable in the circumstances.

It is time for you to pull yourself together and start behaving like an adult citizen who has done wrong, and not a petulant toddler.

Answer me, Damien, or I will create a new thread and I will ask you in front of many more people.

Up to you.

But I am tired of this shit and I am not doing this any more.

OK, one moment, I will create a larger thread. Fine. I'm going to have some tea first and take a quick break.

I have asked you to bring a libel claim for several months. You haven’t. Absolutely bring one. I gave you instructions. You need to send me a pre-action letter (I’ll send you the CPR Media & Communications List Pre-Action Protocol), it is not absolutely required but pretty expected that you provide evidence to correct me, and then that you give me some window of time to correct the claim before bringing a claim, though if you want damages and not just injunctive relief then you can demand that too and bring an action if not given. So please tell me your pre-action letter. On here would probably do. In other words, *precisely what I am asking you for anyway*.

Also, creating a thread would probably be slander, not libel, but my website would be libel.

Because I am telling the truth and you are not, Damien, and truth is (needless to say?) an absolute defence to libel.

Cool, Damien. I will create a new thread after my tea unless you begin telling me the truth here.

Not interested, Damien. Are you going to answer my questions here or are you not?

What did you discuss with Oli that night, in the messages that you deleted? What did he tell you about what he had said or was going to say to the police, and what did you say to him in response? What was the nature of your involvement? I am asking here about that night, but I will also ask about your messages between that night and late June when I began asking about your Instagram messages and you (if you have any intelligence at all, which remains to be seen) presumably stopped discussing this on Instagram.

I want to know, in short, what involvement you had in the account he gave at 12pm the next day, and then what involvement you had in the fuller account he'd have given in his interview, which I assume took place sometime between my first and second arrests, probably around halfway-ish.

What did you discuss that night about the account he had given and was planning to give to the police?

What was in the messages that you deleted?

He claimed that he'd had no contact with me since April 12th. That wasn't true, and you know it wasn't true, because you were in our group chats from April 12-16ish (17-18 were a bit quieter) and you read it and provided your opinion of them to him in a DM at some length. He knew you knew that. Yet he made a statement to the police that, under normal circumstances, he'd have expected I'd go to you and ask you to say was false, and ordinarily someone in your position *would* say that it was false. You didn't. That was very convenient to him, wasn't it? I think everyone here knows why he gave that statement, and that the answer is in your deleted messages from the night he'd have been preparing it (it was submitted at 12pm that day, the 28th, and you deleted your copy of the conversation sometime around 4-6am-ish). Do you have anything to say to contradict or explain that? If not, I think the inference is obvious, isn't it, Damien? You yourself said it was obvious. "Very sus" I think were your words, when you were promising to retrieve and show me Oli's copy of the messages back in June.

[Voice message]Attachment unavailable: 3151764465214821.m4a

That was June 26th. You didn't retrieve the messages then and you haven't since, despite many requests, many promises, and many refusals after having promised. I was absolutely right in what I said in June and I think that is undeniable now, is it not @Edward Hagger @Sam Cherny @Steve Cherny? What did Damien and Oli discuss about this matter (Damien has said it was about this matter, and that it was "negative" and he "didn't want to keep it" or words to that effect, which answer is probably an object lesson in why one should sometimes consult a solicitor before answering questions) in those messages that he deleted that night, and of which he seems so absolutely unable to retrieve a copy from Oli despite recognising the need to do so, and promising many times that he would?

This is obviously not just about the "did he say 'no contact' on April 12th or April 18th?" question, to be clear. That is just the most explicit and specific example of a point in his statement that visibly rests on Damien's presumed non-contradiction.

But the rest of the statement is the same. He says he had no contact at all - well, Damien relayed to me the message that he was just upset about the group chats and would gladly resume the relationship if I stopped talking to others. That is not 'no contact' in the serious sense that even PHA 1997 requires. It is negotiation and secrecy and a double life, not being stalked. Damien's record of whatever was said to Oli, assuming it was on Instagram (their habitual place to talk), was deleted along with the rest of their messages on May 28th. I have my messages from Damien, but they are a hassle to use as evidence because there are hearsay questions that my lawyer has discussed but I do not fully understand myself. Then there is Oli's interview recording. I suspect there he will set out his stall in much more detail. My trusty Mr Hussain (I really lucked out with him) is on the CPS about that. They are seriously in breach of the deadline for disclosure (I think well over double the allotted 28 days at this point) and the initial prosecution case they submitted is shit enough on its own and not what it should have been, but even from that the dodginess of the case is clear.

@Damien You claim that you knew nothing about Oli and Sam Cherny's relationship. You also say you speak to Oli every day. Given that I told you in the morning that I had become certain (whether you claim to have thought I was right or wrong is really beside the point for this purpose) that they were in a relationship, and given I said I would go to the house, is it not somewhat unusual for you to say nothing to Oli until after I went to the house and was arrested at about 10:30pm? Are you telling me you just ... what, didn't exchange a word about the subject? At all?

I don't buy that, and I am starting to suspect that you were quite happy for me to go there, to be explained in a way that the Chernys would find scary ("stalker" etc), and to use that as a way to have me arrested and prosecuted and stopped from disturbing Oli's arrangement with (=extraction of housing and resources from) Sam Cherny by telling him the truth about what Oli had been doing. What say you, Damien? Maybe this is a stretch, I don't know. But the more you refuse to answer, the worse one is inclined to suspect the reality was.

@Sam Cherny If I were you, I would press Oli for a copy of those messages, at least for yourself. He lives with you. I guarantee you they will be *interesting*, probably for you as well as for me (up to you whether you share them with me, but I further suspect you might want to after reading them).

I may not have established what they *contain*, but I think Damien's terror amply proves that they will almost certainly be *interesting*.

And, given what Damien has done to me, and given his response to my fear and my distress over the last few months, I don't honestly give much of a fuck about his. By giving a false account, he brought certain consequences on either my head or his, and I will see to it that they fall on his head, where they rightly belong, not mine.

I would also ask for a screen recording or just to open the app and look through them. I would never have that degree of, uh, coercive control over Oli - he would never let me do that - but then I didn't provide his housing. I don't know how he is with you. Maybe you could make that demand.

^ For reference, this is Instagram messages with Damien (presumably damienwilliamt) from May 27th and early 28th (up to 6am ish, but afterwards may well be interesting too). They plainly conspired to give this false account to the police, which probably *roughly* corrresponded with the account they gave you but almost certainly not totally (it will have had to concede more of the truth, i.e. more recent relationship, than would have been conceded to you).

If you have their messages, you will have proof that the account was dishonest and required careful lawyering and coordination, i.e. the messages will prove the affair (I hate that word and *I never knew of the other relationship* but from your standpoint that's what it was) and that they went to these lengths to conceal it from you and to use you as pawns against me. If I am wrong, I will apologise, but have I been wrong so far?

cc @Sam Cherny and albeit in/near Boston @Steve Cherny

This is when Damien's copy of the conversation starts, i.e. it was deleted before then. Damien has confirmed at length (see attached recording) that there had of course been messages before that date, that they were all deleted, that they had spoken on that platform that night, that it was about my arrest and that matter, that it had been "negative", and that Damien therefore did not want to hold on to it, or words to that effect. I asked him in that call not to delete any messages after that date. I suspect there will have been bad messages after the 28th too, but perhaps not after June 26th unless they are truly idiots, which in this sense they possibly are (use Signal with 1hr auto-deletion! _nepioi! spheteresin atasthaliesin olonto..._).

[Voice message]Attachment unavailable: 4123954931072919.m4a

Not interested, Damien, sorry. Either show us the messages or I invite the Chernys to ask Oli to show them, because your evasion after promising several times makes it pretty bleeding obvious how bad they must be.

Stop bothering them with the truth, haha. Brilliant, Damien. Chernys, you know what to do!

Just get the messages or have enough shame to shut up

If you are this afraid of my asking these questions in front of more of your friends, then you should tell me the truth without my having to do so. Frankly you should have answered them instantly, certainly as soon as you promised to do so, and ultimately you should not have done this. You can answer now with some dignity preserved or you can drag it out in the same way you dragged out my first question about your knowledge of my and Oli’s relationship, and with the same results. Please have some decency, however late in the day, and do not embarrass yourself and cause me even more trouble than you already have.

I mean, for Christ’s sake, I should not be having to coax this out of you.

Also, for what it’s worth, the tort of libel (tort, not crime, so no arrest - we used to have criminal libel, we don’t any more) requires that the statement actually be *untrue*. This is not libel, it is rightful shame at the things you actually did. That shame is your fault, not mine.

I mean, what the fuck were you thinking? What possessed you to do this? Why did you not have these doubts when you thought you’d get away with it? You owe me the mother of all apologies, and it is an absolute disgrace that you are still even now talking to me in the way you are.

Please tell me why I should not extend to you, Damien, precisely the same pity you extended to me. And I *hadn’t* done anything wrong. You have. Gravely.

Here is what you said to me on May 9th – "pissed off", "not going to leave you", "wants no group chats and then will talk to you":

Please tell me why you thought it was even remotely acceptable to lie to the police to have me arrested and prosecuted as a danger to Oli in order to punish me for telling others about what Oli had done

Please tell me why you asked me to "trust me, I'm your friend" while lying to me, lying about me, and trying to have me sent to prison

You were whinging the other day about my telling you the decent thing to do in your position would be to kill yourself. You whinged this morning about my talk of capital punishment for traitors. You seem to think I am obliged to want you around. I am not, nor is anybody else. You live in a society. All of this - the King's peace, courts, roads, antibiotics, 5G, etc - is reliant on people not being shits. Sam Cherny can be a nihilist (no offence to him) because his bread doesn't contain plaster of Paris (because the Lancet - back when it was serious about its motto - did to dodgy merchants in the 1850s essentially what I am doing to you, and we ended up with food and drug regulation). And so forth. You are not a little god, and the police do not exist to do your bidding, and you owe a duty, *certainly* when it comes to criminal accusations, to tell the truth.

I don't consider any of this funny. I consider you scum, and I think you owe me an answer. cc @Edward Hagger

You added Eimhéar Murphy to the group.

You added Guy Copeland-Griffin to the group.

Eimhear, Guy, hi, long time no see. No need to reply, and I'm not sure whether you can see the previous messages when added to an existing chat, so, for transparency, I am just asking my dear old friend Damien, in front of friends, to please explain what he said in the messages he deleted on the night of my arrest for charges he has said are nonsense (see attached). I have been promised an account of these messages for months. Curiously they are not forthcoming, and Damien seems to think he can speak to me with contempt.

I will add people gradually and slowly until I get an answer or until I reach the last Chinaman

They can see the previous messages. Neat. Good. OK, this is a good dynamic. Damien, truth now or truth later, up to you.

You added Jamison Firestone and Michael MC to the group.

also, happy 30th birthday to me 🎂 and so forth Damien, if you want to give a present, I accept answers 👂🏻 (to be fair I didn't get you a present for your thirtieth or whatever it was, but maybe you'll consider this one anyway as a civic duty)

Any response, Damien? “Haha you should go to prison because you’re furious at what I did to you”?

You added Eoghain Leo Murphy and Jacques Lavie to the group.

Jacques, Eoghain, I am asking Damien to answer these questions, to which I think he quite urgently owes me an answer

He thinks "lol"

I think when one promises repeatedly to do something, one does it without whinging and without asking "how would it benefit me?"

Actually let me just put it in statement form: @Damien McMullen, after weeks and weeks of refusing to even say that what Oli said to the police was a lie, you finally said it two days ago, after I dragged in approximately everyone you know and emailed/messaged you and them hourly. You ignored my and my lawyer's questions about whether you would testify in court. I think you agreed with Oli to support his false account, and I think you deleted your messages from that night, and perhaps he deleted his, to cover that up. I see no serious alternative explanation, nor will you provide one. If you don't provide an alternative explanation, I will make sure everyone knows that this is what you did, because I find it beneath disgraceful.

I doubt any of our friends will take a terribly clear position. That's not what I am hoping for. I just need them to hear it - whatever they may think of me and my messages - and to ensure that others know it. I don't think you are entitled to be thought of as having behaved better than how you have.

And if I hadn't been 'embarrassing' and 'stalkerish' and whatever other adjectives you have attached to my telling people what you are doing, then I would be in a significantly worse position and you would have got away with this. I have zero interest in Moving On With My Life™. I will move on, if at all, with my reputation, and you will move on, if at all, with yours.

If you won't answer, we can play 'hot or cold', where 'hot' is Facebook ads with specific allegations and 'cold' is pre-action letters with factual corrections, but I feel it would be easier for you simply to explain to me what you discussed and what part you played in the false police reports that you subsequently supported until your position finally collapsed two days ago

You added Nagadowsky Maciej to the group.

You added Michael Thomas Xavier Dowse to the group.

You added Divyesh Mittal to the group.

Divy, long time no see. Saw you and Jake got married. Congrats! Could you please ask Damien to answer my questions? Must catch up soon, after catching up *with Damien, please, @Damien*.

Just a small matter of lying to the police to have me prosecuted because my boyfriend cheated on me with someone who is ... uh, in the position that you have been in with people like Drew, suffice it to say, and Damien, being Damien, thought that more important than truth, justice, or his friend of twelve years. @Damien, have you by any chance a spare moment to retrieve those messages that you have promised many times and for two months to retrieve from Oli, the ones you deleted after he gave his false account to the police and before you spent two months refusing to testify and refusing to contradict it, before finally collapsing on Sunday night / Monday early morning?

The messages whose deletion you called 'very sus' and promised you would recover them. Or at least explain what you said that night.

[Voice message]Attachment unavailable: 1065737332512140.m4a

@Damien McMullen To clarify, if you don't give me an explanation, I am going to publish the very worst possibility and cite as my evidence the fact that you are refusing to provide any better explanation. I am not going to let you benefit from a doubt that you are deciding to keep alive. That does not feel equitable.

Or perhaps ... actually, I know what I'm going to do. I am going to publish a page with all my suppositions, and it will allow you to fill in a little form (a kind of auto-assisted pre-action letter under the CPR 53 PAP) to contest any given supposition. Everyone will then be able to see what you have contested and what you have not been able or willing to contest. (If I ignore your little pre-action submission, which I obviously won't, then you can bring a libel action and win if I can't establish on the balance of probs that I am right.) *Or you could just answer my question and show me the thing you promised many times you would show me to prove you didn't do what I suspect you did.*

@Damien McMullen Do I look like I am going to give up and walk away out of embarrassment in front of our/your friends? Has that stopped me in the last couple of months? No, I think not. You owe me an answer. You have promised me an answer. At the risk of tautology, you ought to give me one.

Lest anyone think Damien is unbothered...

He tells me he will bring a libel claim and have me arrested (?) (no criminal libel nowadays alas) - I tell him truth is an absolute defence to libel, that libel is the publishing of *untrue* unflattering things - he switches to other complaints - make of that what you will

I suggest the conclusion is that Damien did help make (or agree not to contradict, at the very least) a false police report about me, with the intention of having me prosecuted as someone I wasn't, so that Sam Cherny (the @Divyesh of this dynamic, sorry Divy but ykwim) did not discover that Oli had been unfaithful to him with (unbeknownst to me) me

Auri sacra fames!

I knew Damien was partial to money, but not total

Fond memories, eh, @Divyesh? I didn't think he would go this far. I don't know what the fuck is happening to him. This is the most appalling thing I've ever experienced.

Sorry, what sort of host am I? Here is my current website: https://damien-mcmullen.swhra.uk Here are the recordings of our calls: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf6DCuNmELvw

Here is our full initial call about this matter on June 26th, about a week after I was charged with being a stalker (!) for visiting Sam Cherny's house to tell him the truth (Oli gave him a rather different account of why I was there, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 is a fucking vague mess – @Divyesh I was hoping you might take that one up with Tony Blair since I think your folks know him, haha – so here we are). The above calls are then from July ... 14th? 16th? something like that iirc, a while later. Damien *has* now told the truth to me and the Chernys in one room. That box is ticked. I will update the website to reflect that. What he hasn't yet done and is refusing to do is explain why exactly he didn't do that to begin with, what he and Oli attempted and planned to do to me, and what they discussed in messages since deleted from that night.

Personally, if I were innocent, I would provide evidence, and I know that because I was recently innocent and I provided approximately ten metric fuck tons of evidence to establish that. Damien claims to be innocent but is extremely resistant to opening up the record. Infer from that what you will. I know what I will.

Anyway, many people are resistant to this, but I am trying to revive something once referred to as 'society' to apply moral pressure to Damien.

You added Alexander Camm to the group.

You added Carla Mcmullen to the group.

You added Nandan Mani Ratnam to the group.

For clarity, this is what I have had to listen to for several months in which I have asked Damien to tell the truth

[Video]

@Damien If you won't provide those messages, I think it is fairly obvious what happened, isn't it? You are not preserving any doubt by refusing to answer.

@Divyesh If I can prevail on old friendship, guest-friendship, etc... could you please speak to Damien and tell him that this is something one does not do for the sake of money? Christ. Or Ganesha or whoever.

While I'm here, and since I think it was the greatest reply ever: Me [at my parents' Suffolk house with Divy and others, trying to work the washing machine, receiving unexpected counsel from Divy]: "Divy, how on earth do *you* know how this washing machine works?" Divy [languidly, with a sigh]: "A _lifetime_ of training servants!"

Anyway, I say it because it is obviously rather the theme of this affair. Literally this affair, as it turns out it was. @Damien Have you no aidos? You need to tell me, *and @Sam Cherny*, what happened, and stop hiding behind him as if you were doing him a service and as if I was not.

I wonder if Divy also recognises the dynamic - I don't actually remember encountering it in the Dr*w/etc days, but he might - where the host's money is brandished against the person trying to tell the truth. "You mustn't disturb the Chernys", "the Chernys could destroy you", etc - well, the Chernys, I note, haven't done that:

[Video]

Yet the Chernys are brandished to threaten me to help lie to the Chernys. Remarkable! It is as if I knew that, say, Drew was cheating on Divy, and I had proposed to tell Divy, and Drew or one of his friends had said "don't disturb the Mittals, they will destroy you". The very gall!

Anyway, back to the immediate point: @Damien, would you kindly tell me what part you played in Oli’s false reports to the police to have me prosecuted? You deleted your messages from that night. You claim not to remember what you discussed, which is obviously a lie and I’m tired of having to humour these ridiculous amnesia claims. You have told me you could refresh your memory by asking Oli for his copy, you have told me that for several months, indeed you could, and yet you haven’t. There is no serious doubt remaining about what happened. Either explain why you did it or refuse to explain.

To everyone else, please ignore whatever reassuring nonsense you are told in private until Damien can actually say it to me too. I’m sure I have various mental illnesses and whatever else Damien can think up, but none of that relieves him of the obligation to explain himself to his friend of over a decade.

@Damien McMullen I swear to god I will add people in numbers that Cantor would wince at if you do not *answer me*. I have dealt with your stonewalling, vitriol, contempt, etc for months, when what you have owed me is a fucking abject and pleading apology. I am not going to keep asking and reasoning with you. Please locate your spine, and man up.

While you’re at it, you can maybe explain this disgrace of a reply yesterday:

Why do you think this is acceptable?

(I think the ‘indecent image’ you were referring to was one photo in a large tapestry of images I attached to my comment to your cousin in my latest Facebook post, where that one photo showed you drunk and topless and passed out. I think that is hardly the end of the world. But at least the Chernys can now see the script.)

(Cousin? Some other kind of relative? @Carla Mcmullen Any idea?)

“Indecent images! I will have you prosecuted if you continue to question me about the lie on which I am already having you prosecuted!”

This is soon going to expand to a lot more people and a lot more messages. I just wanted to check if there’s anyone here who thinks I should go quietly to prison rather than do that if Damien keeps refusing to answer?

You added Gladys Cherny and Galdys Cherny to the group.

You added a participant to the group.

Sorry, @Octavian, are you saying that he is not in a Facebook relationship with @Sam Cherny and that you don’t know them to be in a relationship? Either way, would you let Sam Cherny know - without any endorsement or even calling me mad if you wish - what I have asked you to let him know?

You knew Oli and I were in a relationship when you gave me the advice you gave me in May (I left that group and so it has sadly vanished from my Facebook, but others here will recall it, and obviously you do). If my calculations are correct, that relationship plus another relationship with Sam Cherny makes two relationships, something Sam Cherny will presumably not be happy about and that is why you plainly don’t want to tell him. I know his family are rich and so he is useful to Oli, and I know the position you have been in and Damien has been in and what that does to your attitude to other human beings as means vs ends and so forth, but do you not feel Sam Cherny has some right to know important facts about his life that all of us now know but he doesn’t? And, even if he doesn’t, do you think that your refusal will be followed by my giving up and calling it a day?

Also, @Damien, while you're here, I think there was some sort of explanation that I seem to recall you owed me. Maybe it would be helpful to your ever being trusted by anyone again if you could give it before I am forced to have the Chernys extract it from Oli in the form of his messages. Just, you know, if you acted with one last remaining shred of dignity, maybe?

If not, I will carry on, but I would really appreciate it if, given what you have tried to do to me, and given the months of work it has taken to extract from you what I have extracted from you, you could maybe have the minimal decency to tell me now and not make me do more.

@Octavian, for your part, the choices are two: - Sam Cherny finds out that you told him - Sam Cherny finds out that you, along with Damien and Oli, hid it from him Nothing else. In my experience, even in your line of work, a track record of moral integrity counts for something, especially once you turn thirty or so.

You can leave if you like, or you can do something or other with your solicitor! Up to you. I'm not quite sure what you mean about the solicitor.

If he specialises in public justice offences I might have some work for him, I suppose?

Anyway, the leave button is here. If you click that, you're gone! Just to refocus things: - @Damien McMullen: Explanation and messages promised and expected. - @Octavian Augustin: Message to Sam Cherny requested.

That's fine! Feel free to go. Be my non-guest!

I am being prosecuted, so you'll forgive me for being somewhat peeved at Damien, but leave if it doesn't concern you.

Thanks, that's helpful! Appreciate it.

You removed Eimhéar Murphy from the group.

OK, slightly bored of her. Sorry.

Damien, I think you owe me an answer.

So please give it, rather than this rubbish presumably coordinated with Eimhear.

Could you give me the messages that you promised several times to give me, or else explain from your memory, which you plainly still have, what you discussed and agreed on May 27th-28th with Oli, and why you didn't for several months (until a few days ago, finally, under immense social pressure) contradict the false account he gave to the police?

I was looking forward to being so embarrassed when I realised the truth, @Damien:

Why don't you so embarrass me? Go on!

Just to be clear: a screen recording from his phone would settle this - screen recordings from desktop are less ideal because easier to edit, and a text file I don't trust at all at this point for reasons hopefully not necessary to explain

You won't give me that, though, because I am right

You added Eimhéar Murphy to the group.

Sorry to @Eimhéar whom I'm just speaking to on the phone and I think I misunderstood the direction of her comments slightly - she is ok - I was expecting a 'no u' and that is not quite what she was driving at, so my bad, mea culpa

But, just to re-focus things again: @Octavian and @Damien have tragically missed my messages and forgotten that there are a couple of tiny items on my to-do list, on my Trello or Jira board, assigned to them

If I need to write a letter to Sam Cherny, I will do so tomorrow, but I would really rather the message were conveyed to him by his good friend Tudor or Octavian or whatever historical period he is currently from

The same way it *should have* been conveyed to him by his good friend Damien, who instead refused to pass on the message, ignored my messages to him, waited for me to visit, and then helped Oli to make a false police report saying that I was a stalker and not his boyfriend (and only about three days ago did Damien admit through gritted teeth all the stuff he had known and tried not to say):

Actually, better idea: I will write a letter tomorrow regardless, because there is no reason not to do so and no situation in which I would feel entirely confident in not doing so, but I will note that I mentioned it to his dear friend _[notable line of kings or emperors]_ and either he will have heard already or he won't have. There we go. _[notable line of kings or emperors]_ may now leave if he prefers, which almost certainly he does.

Alrighty then, Tudor/Octavian/whatever is obviously not going to tell him. NIce work, Tudor/Octavian/whatever!

Splendid people these are.

@Damien You were saying, I think, that I would be so embarrassed when I saw these messages?

Will I be or would you?

I suspect embarrassment is the least of your concerns

Eimhear is of the view (I assume she doesn't mind my saying this given her general apparent attitude to Damien which I really misjudged from her initial messages) that I should go to the police and I should pursue it (I had said that I would report in any case but not pursue if I got some satisfactory explanation and restitution and remorse rather than silence and contempt)

I don't really know, but I can tell Damien that silence and contempt are not going to work, and I think everyone in this thread would sooner not be in this thread, including me – I'm not doing this for sport or companionship – so maybe we could call it a day, @Damien, break the habit of a lifetime, and tell the truth?

Well, I'm being prosecuted by him, not annoyed by him! (Technically I'm being prosecuted by the Crown, yes, but technically only. In reality him and Oli.)

prosequo = chase after

So right now there are two possible outcomes: I am imprisoned as a stalker (which I am not), or it becomes clear that I am not that, and that Damien and Oli gave that account for a reason, which requires that Damien explain that reason

Haha, good luck doing that with two days in a magistrates' court! Sorry. I would be totally hosed.

It is also hard to do if Damien ignores requests to testify, which he has. I will maybe try to summon him but it depends if he is crucial enough in the end or if Oli and Mrs Cherny are sufficient as witnesses (they are already scheduled) to unpick the case.

Sorry, I'm not sure if this is advice to me or to Damien? Again, though, I am afraid I am being prosecuted on the basis of lies. Advice to "move on" or "stop living like this" is not immediately helpful to me, alas!

I understand that "don't be in this situation" is a very tempting idea, but it is somewhat complex to operationalise. Indeed I am operationalising it thus.

My problem is that I have loved and trusted Oli, perhaps wrongly, very well, who knows?, and he has conducted two nearly-totally-overlapping two-year relationships at once, one for love and one for money, and then has lied to the police to keep me from telling the truth to the 'money' one

And various fellow professionals in the same sector have been disappointingly unwilling to help right the situation

Most of them not quite this much!

There are various decent men in this thread

Well, I'm being called worse and threatened with prison by someone like Damien

That is my point - at this rate they will *get* my time and my worth

Rex, the Crown

That again does not really immediately help me

That may be true, but I am standing trial based on his lies!

in the eyes of the law he is an equal

in my eyes obviously no longer

well, his and Oli's lies, but I hold him largely responsible for influencing Oli, who is capable of good

that is it: I want the truth to come out and I want this fucked-up, morally inverted situation in which he calls me a liar and a stalker to be righted

i want the ship of state flipped back the right way around like a kid doing a kayak certification

I want me and Rex to be cool again

to be clear, I was euphemistically talking about those in the precious metals extraction sector, principally Tudor/Octavian/etc and Damien

anyway, this can all be wrapped up if Damien would just explain why and in what exact way he conspired with Oli

it is now obvious beyond serious doubt that he did

not a general vague answer but *the messages*, Damien - I realise I left space for a general vague answer there

I will not respond to generalities

I have had months of generalities

you told me you would get the messages and that I would be so embarrassed once you provided them - so provide them

nothing else

i swear to god, Damien

nil nisi messages

messages, Damien

enough

so you are refusing to get the messages that you have promised many times to show me, to vindicate yourself

messages, please, Damien

i have had enough of your spiel

if you say you will do something, you do it

messages

not going to say anything else

pacta sunt servanda

@Edward or someone: I would appreciate it if you could talk to Damien about the condition of his soul

where's that priest who was cc-ed into one of my emails and sent a nice reply? let me find him

You added Frank Gelli to the group.

Frank, if you have a moment, Damien could do with a priest - no worries if you're busy

I invite everyone here to imagine the absurdity of someone acting like this if the messages would vindicate him and embarrass me

also, this is impressive, Damien, very morally impressive - I suppose that completes the circle, doesn’t it? lie about me to the police, and then try to use the resulting bail conditions to stop me from telling anyone that you did so, and to get out of doing what you promised to do - I shouldn’t need to ask you to ask Oli, because *you should have done it yourself to exonerate yourself after promising you would do it because they would exonerate you*

I assure you every fucking person in this thread knows what is going on here when you won’t provide those messages

I love that everyone knows instantly what the act in question is

I hadn’t realised what a problem this bloody law was

@Damien when you’re done playing the victim, maybe you could account for what you have tried to do to your friend of twelve years?

I really do find the victim act sickening, from someone who has used false police reports, arrests, and the threat of imprisonment to discipline me for telling others about my relationship with my boyfriend (how dare I, lol)

and who is indeed still trying to use the threat of imprisonment to shut me up and stop me from pointing out that he has not kept his word and doesn’t seem at all keen to supply this evidence that will supposedly vindicate him and embarrass me

what is the end game, @Damien? do you think, if you ignore my messages for 149 days and somehow end up managing to have me imprisoned for something I didn’t do, that you are ever going to be welcome again anywhere?

if anyone here ever considers trusting Damien again, I invite you to read and listen to how he spoke to me when I was facing untrue accusations and asking him, my friend of 12 years, to tell the truth: https://damien.chats.swhra.uk

[Voice message]Attachment unavailable: 1358076273078629.m4a

if there were any decency in him, he'd kill himself

I warned Edward because I was concerned there might be some decency in him:

but no, sure enough there's not and here he is today, saying the same vile nonsense and refusing to account for what he plainly did

up-to-date copy of this conversation now available here: https://damien-friends.chats.swhra.uk/

with PDF export available for forensic purposes, since lawyers seem to love having everything as PDFs (you can also select messages, or stretches of messages with the usual `Shift` plus select maneouvre that you'd use on MacOS, and create PDFs from them) (I say this because I think I am innovating and disrupting the criminal defendant sector)

sorry, to be clear, all that machinery is not just for this chat - it’s the ‘platform’ underpinning my various archives: https://oli.chats.swhra.uk https://damien.chats.swhra.uk https://peter.chats.swhra.uk The Peter chat is a minor one, but there you get to see that Oli tells Peter he loves me (present tense, as of a few days ago), while Damien tells me that he “desperately wants [me] behind bars”. Mind you, perhaps both those things are true 🤑

Auri sacra fames, eh, @Damien?

You added Edward Davenport to the group.

@Edwardie: old frenemy, wrongly convicted (by me, or should I say Oli) trafficker of women, perhaps you might at one of your soirées be able to prod Damien (I am not allowed to ask you to prod a particular other person) about the small matter of his making false statements to the police so that I could be arrested and prosecuted for 'stalking' for what was actually my trying to tell Sam Cherny (with whom perhaps you are also acquainted) about A Particular Other Person's infidelity to him with me? That, it turns out, was what was really going on. I was misled by A Particular Other Person's claims that he was being controlled by his criminal mastermind gangmaster associate Sam Cherny (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o4CO3KQG8dxiYpg_p_jwrIgOsbDkklEi/view) with some kind of vaguely hinted-at connection to you. It turns out he was just in a relationship with Cherny and using your mystique as chaff to lead me astray.

This is also insane considering that we have a preservation order in place for Instagram messages between you and Oli, @Damien

And particularly insane considering *you were copied in to that very email*

Goodbye Eimhear

Oh thanks!

Nice to be 30! 🎂

I am just asking @Damien why he lied to the police to have me imprisoned - that is sorta a theme of this chat - but it is also nice to reflect on other milestones

(Well, strictly Oli lied to the police, but I am asking Damien why he conspired not to contradict Oli’s account, and then deleted his messages and is presently feigning amnesia - that old chestnut - and refusing to recover those messages or explain what he agreed with Oli and why … it’s a bit of a long story at this point)

(We are at the stage where everyone knows exactly why Damien is not answering, but for some reason we have to drag it all out)

Sorry, to provide a bit of context: - I had been going out with Oli for two years (well, romantically deeply entangled for two and a bit years, though at some points distantly so) - it turns out Oli was also in a relationship with his ‘housemate’ @Sam Cherny, whose father @Steve Cherny is a very accomplished patent litigator and partner at Quinn Emanuel _(is that the right number of Ms and Ns…?)_ in the States - when I found out, I went to r lovely house of the Chernys to tell Sam the truth - Oli, with Damien’s help, saw fit to call me a stalker to prevent that

the* lovely house, not r lovely house

And then a few days ago Damien finally collapsed under this kind of social pressure, but in an earlier thread, and confirmed what he had previously denied or avoided telling the truth about, namely that I was not stalking Oli and had not hallucinated our relationship, but that he had known and interacted with us as a couple this year and had even been present in our relationship arguments in a period in which Oli now claims that I was stalking him and that he had not wanted anything to do with me

And Damien is now, as you can see, redefining 'stalking' in some looser sense to mean 'being too intense in a relationship argument' - if that is what he means, then sure, I'm a stalker, but, in the sense originally meant, I am not

I did ring the doorbell a lot of times, that is true - I can't remember the number of times

I expected Oli was trying to stop Sam from coming to the door because he knew that a short conversation between us would instantly collapse all of this

Of course it is harassing - and none of this is normal, if that escaped your notice

It is not normal to have two boyfriends

It is not normal to try to hide one relationship from the other

It is not normal for you, Damien, to refuse to pass my message on to Sam Cherny earlier that day to explain what had been going on

So in those non-normal circumstances, I behaved slightly provocatively - but I was not a stalker, I was Oli's other boyfriend

Or if I was a stalker then it was in that 'slightly intense boyfriend, upset, in a mad situation' sense, not the Fatal Attraction sense

What I did not realise, because Oli told me something entirely different, was that it was Sam Cherny's family home - so I am sorry to his mother and sister, who I had absolutely no idea lived there, because I was told he lived there with late-partying bachelor friends

Turns out his mother and teenage sister - who must have been doing GCSEs at the time, or whatever they're now called - live there with Sam Cherny and Oli

So my bad, I hope I didn't disturb her exams, but I think Oli bears a tiny bit of blame for giving me an entirely different account of who lived there

Damien, you deleted your messages with Oli that night, and you claim to have total amnesia about what you discussed - you then said you could easily get the messages from Oli and explain what you discussed - could you please now do so rather than trying to distract us all with this big show?

Damien and I were friends, yes, and I expected rather more of him than this

Thanks for your support, I appreciate it a lot because this has been fucking deranging

Damien himself has said that my actions were entirely explained and justified by what Oli did, but now he is changing tack because he's in the hot seat

I think the very, very obvious presumption is that he agreed that night with Oli not to contradict his account, which indeed he didn't for several months until the other night when he finally relented

I think he obviously thought this was justified because Oli had the right to rely on me, enjoy my company and my love, and then make me disappear at will, and, if I found out that he had been in another relationship, make false accusations to the police to stop me from telling his other boyfriend that we had been in a relationship

The reason Oli had blocked me for 8 weeks or whatever it was, as Damien says, is that I had gone to @Sam Cherny's house (or Oli's house, as I knew it!!) to argue with Oli about something else, and that had felt too dangerous, evidently - Oli and I had argued before and I had threatened to go to the house to talk to him or his housemates before, and whenever that happened he rolled out the stalker line

But Damien in between was relaying that Oli wasn't going to leave me, that he loved me, that he would resume our relationship if I stopped talking to others, etc

Damien, at this point I just want the messages, not your spiel

Your motives are up to you

You said you would get and show me the messages to vindicate yourself, so please do, and stop talking otherwise

No, I'm upset because he agreed with Oli to not contradict Oli's account that we weren't in a relationship at all as recently as this year

I have absolutely no problem with whatever he may think about the doorbell ringing

That is personal preference and reasonable people may disagree

Maybe I was a bit of a nuisance, sure - I was trying to be a nuisance, because I was trying to annoy Sam Cherny into coming down so that I would have a chance to tell him that his boyfriend (who I hadn't even known was his boyfriend) had been cheating on him with me (unbeknownst to me) for essentially the entire length of his relationship

I thought that was something he deserved to know

I also expected Oli would be trying very, very hard to keep him away from me, because he knew that even a short conversation between us would collapse everything

So, in that situation, I rang the doorbell a lot, for the strategic reasons mentioned above

Sadly Oli found a way to win that game, which was to call the police and to say that I was stalking him and that he had never recently been in a relationship with me, and Damien supported that account and refused to contradict it despite having literally relayed messages two weeks earlier saying that Oli wasn't going to "leave" me, and just wanted me to stop the group chats

I consider this reprehensible

Damien deleted his copy of their messages from that night, and claims to have complete amnesia as to what was discussed

[Voice message]Attachment unavailable: 1240505218200373.m4a

So I am asking him to do what he said he would do several months ago, and refresh his memory by consulting Oli's copy of the conversation, which he should still have - he is trying to wriggle out of that by saying "you can't ask me to ask Oli for the messages! that would violate your bail conditions, which say that you can't indirectly contact Oli!"

I find this disgustingly insincere

The reality is that Damien obviously remembers the conversation and that the whole argument about needing to consult Oli at all is a ridiculous fiction

Though I suppose at this point I would ultimately want to have some documentary evidence of what was discussed, so perhaps the Oli thing is necessary, god knows

I just want *the truth* from him, and I am not getting it

I also find "Sam has been charged with stalking" to be a disgraceful argument here - you do not get to make false police reports and then cite the resulting charges (and it seems the CPS files those pretty mechanically nowadays, on the 'believe the victim' philosophy, without a great deal of further investigation) as evidence

Here are about seven hours of calls with Damien, in which you will note that at no point does he call me a stalker in any sense other than "I was a bit intense at points in an unbearable situation in which my boyfriend was carrying on a parallel relationship and then turned around and denied the history of two years of my life, with the support of my friend of twelve years whom I thought I could trust to bear honest witness to shared reality": https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf6DCuNmELvw

I regret that I have had to do this stuff - I was not doing it last year, and I have not done it in the ... what, slightly longer than twelve years that I have known you, James - in fact it was your party at which I met Damien in 2014, come to think of it

I don't know if you have ever known me as a stalker or a danger - I find it ridiculous and disgraceful that Damien is doing this

I have had to practically pull teeth to get him to admit the truth, which he admitted the other night but is presently trying to un-admit, or ... well, god knows what he means by 'stalker' now, it's a very elastic word as I have learned

'stalker' = anything from Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction to someone who sends a few too many messages in group chats when his boyfriend would rather keep their affair (I never knew it was an affair!) secret

Here is what Damien was saying about two weeks before my visit, when he now claims that I was 'stalking' Oli, whatever exactly he now means by that, and that Oli was not in a relationship with me

At the time it was "pissed off" and "not going to leave you" - I think that is a more honest description

Sadly the Protection from Harassment Act is a mess of an act, and allows shitty people to use the police as a disciplinary instrument in situations like this

I think what Oli owed me, and what Damien owes me, is an apology, not this

It is *insane* to conduct a relationship, that turned out to be an affair, for two years, and then to treat my going to tell the other person as a crime, and to try to defend this - I am a human being, not a romantic resource that appears at will and can be dismissed at will like some sort of 19th-century household retainer

or like an EC2 instance, for any programmers among us

I have had to deal with this crap from Damien for months and months, so forgive me if I don't forgive him

[Video]

It took Herculean efforts just to get him to confirm the basic facts of my and Oli's relationship, which he knew like the back of his hand because he had been privy to more of it than anyone else had been

You know, if someone makes a false accusation against you, and you turn to someone who you thought was your friend and you think "oh, thank god, so-and-so will tell them what really happened", and he turns around and says "no, I know nothing of the sort, no I don't remember those group chats we were all in, no I'm not going to go and look at them now, etc", I find it hard to consider that forgivable

Damien knew perfectly well what happened, because Oli texted him on April 18th, after I said I was going to visit his house to discuss this, to say that he was finally breaking up with me, as he always did every single time things broke down badly enough that I said I was going to visit - obviously he couldn't have me visiting as his boyfriend, because he already had one of those

Same thing here - I said I was going to text his 'housemate' in February to ask what was really going on, I asked Oli what the housemate was going to say, and he answered that he would block me because he had told him he had a stalker: https://youtu.be/Ekx85XGzNjQ?si=kNdDnlOR5GtHmVmp&t=124 That was in February. So forgive me if I don't take this 'stalker' crap from Damien seriously.

Thank god I keep my texts and record and archive my calls, honestly, because otherwise I'd have been screwed, by Damien, who has tried to screw me and is still lying through his teeth

@Damien I would appreciate it if you would now share *your* messages from that night, which you have promised again and again to show me, because you say they would vindicate you - you say it is just a coincidence that you refused for several months to contradict Oli's false account, and ignored my and my lawyer's requests that you testify to what you knew

(Sorry, the February comment might be unclear to people who don't know the chronology of the relationship, but you can see / listen to the following recordings from our 20-hour phone call that day - of which that was the first hour - to see that I was not at that point 'stalking' him and that he did not want no contact with me, he just kept the 'stalker' accusation in reserve to use if I threatened his other life: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK1sBErwRKjk)

kept it in reserve with Damien's fucking invertebrate scum support

you have been a true friend, Damien, thanks for all of this

Eimhear thought you might have been receiving some kind of literal kickback from Oli based on the success of this 'relationship', like affiliate marketing - that was always too far for me, I just thought it was some kind of honour among thieves, ya know, honour among gold-diggers or whatever, but I don't know - she has known you since childhood, so maybe she's right

I don't really care, at the end of the day, I just expected my old friend to tell the truth, and you have done anything but and are still doing anything but

and fine, but I will then make sure everyone knows it

please don't give me more crap, Damien

just give me the fucking messages or have the shame to shut up

minor correction: the CPS does not file these charges - in practice I believe the police file these charges, under some kind of delegated power for relatively minor crimes charged in magistrates' courts (formerly known as police courts)

and I have been caught in the intersection of the already-dreadful PHA 1997 and then the more recent 'believe the victim' approach

'victim', Oli, lol

'victim'

(those being his messages to Damien, not mine, and from a period in which he now alleges, with Damien's support, that I had been 'stalking' him for some time)

I find this patently cynical and I note that Damien has chosen option #2 (shame to shut up) over option #1 (show the messages, deleted from his phone but apparently not deleted by Oli, that he claims will vindicate him and show he didn't conspire with Oli to support his false account, but, apparently, supported his false account by sheer coincidence)

[Voice message]Attachment unavailable: 1044434095037551.m4a

"you won't be able to get them back" was referring to his own copy deleted from his own account - I hadn't considered Oli's copy, or had maybe assumed at that point (that recording being from late June) that Oli would surely have deleted them too - Damien now represents that he has not, though whether that is true or whether he is saying it just because he knows that it would be too blatant if Oli had deleted them too I don't know

sorry, this whole situation has driven me into new extremes of complicated sentence syntax

anyway, Damien appears to have finished conferring with Oli, so perhaps we're due a reply soon, who knows

wait, no, sorry, I misread that chart, he's not finished, the last line is on, not off - my bad - i am obviously a terrible stalker, as I was just saying to my old friend Jack, lol

really uniquely poorly qualified to stalk - there should be some sort of professional body to regulate the industry, clearly

Damien I see you're typing, and I hope that what you're typing is "here are the messages, here, with this very message"

and not something else that insults me and doesn't provide the messages

ah, there we go

no messages

quelle surprise

I think it is a disgrace that you see fit to talk like this, in this situation, having done what you have done, and you will have to face moral reality sooner or later, Damien - perhaps best not to create too much more of it

Also, people would not be bored if you provided the second of the two things I have asked you for for at least a month: - an honest account given to me and the Chernys, and potentially in court _(now ticked off, at least the me-and-Chernys bit – not sure what your attitude to court now is, but also not sure we'll have time or need to call you, and can always do so involuntarily)_ - *an explanation of why it took approximately a thousand tons of social pressure applied to you for several months to make you give that honest account* - that is, what you discussed the night of my arrest that was bad enough that you deleted your messages and have since professed amnesia - I suspect extremely strongly at this point that you at least agreed not to tell the truth, and at worst that you helped formulate Oli's extremely dishonest account I have said all this here: https://damien-mcmullen.swhra.uk I will get around to updating it to reflect that you _have_ now given an honest account (ish, through gritted teeth and very tersely) to me and the Chernys - I am disinclined to give you _too_ much credit for the account you gave, but you did give it

and I'm sorry to the Chernys, I will try to fix that bloody card image on that link

also some of the YouTube links there will now be broken because I took a load of those videos down after you gave that account, as discussed/live-reported near the very beginning of this thread

incidentally @James you said my messages with Oli would be useful in proving the truth in court, which I wasn't so sure about, but if they are useful than these are infinitely more so

then*, not than (why can I sometimes not edit messages?)

we are at day 63 of 211, from initial hearing to trial, and I am happy with my progress, even if I have had to annoy many mutual friends to create enough social pressure to extract from Damien honest statements that he should have given to begin with

when all of this is over, Damien will apologise for all my messages

also, I see that someone I infer to very likely be Mrs Cherny has spent about 7 hours yesterday reading my emails (https://emails.swhra.uk), including reading my NHS record which I sent to Oli as part of my "I will trust you with all of my life so that you can hopefully let me into yours" mission which obviously went so well and has been so honoured by friends like Damien – I hadn't quite considered some of these more insane privacy leaks entailed by laying the record open, haha, but I hope she now understands that *I am telling the truth*:

sadly, contrary to folk belief, IP addresses are virtually bloody impossible to map to even very rough locations ("London", "west London", whatever) other than by dodgy statistical association ("this IP address was linked to this address typed into a form by this data broker reselling form data from some website") or by IP allocations (which are essentially useless since ISPs are enormous and they buy large IP address blocks and assign them randomly across their customer base - exceptions would be stuff like Cornwall, where they have a Cornish-specific ISP because they haven't yet developed civilisation and incorporated themselves into England)

anyway my point is that the walls are closing in, one way or another, for the general false reality, maintained for the Chernys' benefit, that motivated and is sustaining my wrongful prosecution

(my inference is: Hyperoptic = rich or at least well-off enough to be bothered with fussy 1Gbps internet connections - could be e.g. software engineer on a good salary, could also be billionaire or could be Chernys; iPad = middle-aged or old, since nobody younger browses the internet on an iPad; 7 hours = plainly motivated beyond the way anyone here would likely be motivated)

ooh, that last message elicited a healthy-length Instagram DM report to Oli, eh, @Damien, haha - this is fun to watch

ok i'm gonna stop stalking now since it's getting a bit daft, but it is amusing to look at this and be able to read quite clearly what is happening behind the scenes

tldr: Damien and Oli are stressing about what to say and whether it is more costly to soldier on or better to yield to my pressure and explain what they did - and probably also whether there's a way to fake a screen recording of some innocent version of what they discussed last night (my advice: it will be a pain in the ass, and I will then ask for a https://bigzipfiles.facebook.com/p/dl/download/file.php?x=1&y=2&z=etc URL generated by Facebook's export tool, at which point you hit the wall of functional impossibility, so I wouldn't bother trying to fake the recording)

who would have thought all those years of professional software engineering (ok, programming, I agree with Dijkstra re 'SW eng', but that label won) would come in handy some day??

also, Damien, I think Eimhear is going to find you or something like that, she said, I didn't quite understand because I don't speak Irish

she also said she had made a police report, though it didn't sound like a very useful one ("the gays have all gone wild and one of them is an Algerian murderer I think")

and she called my mum, whom she apparently got on with, and both agreed that I should stop messaging you in the interest of legal safety or whatever, to which I say: ruat caelum

and her kids are very sweet and I had a video call with her and them and I am now uncle Sam (kidding, she didn't say that, but I did slightly feel like it as I was shown various toys etc)

haha, now I am meant to extend mercy to Damien and Oli, now that their plan is backfiring

everyone can see here precisely how much mercy Damien extended to me when I was actually innocent*, unlike them: https://damien.chats.swhra.uk/ *or mostly innocent - I rang a doorbell, and I hit Oli a month and a bit earlier, which was wrong of me and etc etc etc it's all been discussed to death in various places, clip here so you can judge for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1PlcocbTtU

relevant section is 27 May onwards - particularly the month after 27 May but before 25 June ish, when Damien realised that his denial of Oli's and my relationship (and obvious untrustworthiness) was in tension with his denial of Oli and Sam Cherny's relationship (which he needed to deny because he and Oli knew that it would end badly if I settled on that as the obvious truth - and indeed it has ended badly)

he'd have happily had me go to prison for what he and Oli did, so forgive me if I'm not the fucking Samaritans, Damien

(though actually even the Samaritans don't take an institutional view that suicide is always wrong)

Yes, I did do that to him, but no, it's not when he cut contact - he cut contact a week later when I said I would go to his house, after these chats (with you!) (which you denied knowledge of!) in the week in between: https://groups.chats.swhra.uk

I just shared a link above but I'll share it again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1PlcocbTtU Frankly I feel somewhat justified in hitting him, but it was obviously against the law, I offered to go to the police station with him and tell the truth if he wanted to file a report (as you can hear in that clip), and when I went to his house for a second time about two months later, and he mentioned it as colour but didn't formally report it, I confessed in the police car accurately

I didn't beat him, haha, I rapped him once on the head because he was being utterly unbearable, despite being in the wrong, much like you now

It caused quite a bad bruise and a small cut because I was holding my phone in that hand - if you want an honest answer, I regret hitting him *that hard* but I don't regret hitting him tout court - if I had the benefit of hindsight and pre-planning, I would not have had my phone in that hand, but I did

I have very little shame, and I think he should have more, but I do feel the injury was worse than he deserved

If you want to have a serious discussion rather than this posturing, I will happily discuss my feelings at length

Yeah, Damien, why don't you just show me the messages that you said you'd show me?

This act is a bit unconvincing when you didn't say any of that originally

Here are your messages at the time: https://groups.chats.swhra.uk

What did you and Oli agree on the night of May 27th - about a month and a half after April 12th when I hit him and April 18th when I first visited the house (not at that point realising he was in a relationship with Sam Cherny, but by the second visit I had realised) - that led to you not contradicting his false account for several months until finally in the early hours of Monday morning you told the truth

That is the question here, not your dilatory posturing about stuff you never cared about at the time

Well, they are actually, haha

Here you call it 'very sus' and promise to get the messages

[Voice message]Attachment unavailable: 942567428237813.m4a

You have promised the same in this thread

Either you were lying or you were hoping I'd be fobbed off with altered text or HTML

Once I asked for a recording of the mobile app, you changed your position to this

I do not find that very convincing and I don't think anyone else does

And I think everyone knows what has gone on here

So maybe you could stop this pathetic act and just tell the truth

Did he delete them?

The answer is clearly either "yes" or "no but I won't show you them"

You have relayed plenty of nasty messages from Oli about me, or nasty supposed messages

Yesterday you told me he wanted me to go to prison

You have told me yourself that I deserve to go to prison

You told me days after my arrest that this wouldn't have happened if I had stopped "badgering on" in group chats (hmmmmm)

So I don't think you are refusing out of kindness to me - I think, with respect, pull the other one

Really? Could you just spell that out?

That you made these false accusations not because I was stalking Oli, but because I was talking about our relationship to others in group chats

That was the problem

And you thought it was your right to make false accusations and have me prosecuted to discipline me in my relationship

I do not think that is defensible, even if you and he do

And I find it obscene that *I* am being called a brute and controlling etc while he is called a fucking victim

I love Oli, but he is not my victim, I am his

and yours

I don't mind if you give me advice

I do mind if you make false police reports to have me wrongly prosecuted

So please show me your messages

Did he delete his copy, or did he not?

Could you answer my question, if you would?

Did he delete his copy, or did he not?

of the messages you exchanged on the night of May 27th to early morning of May 28th

You have clearly spoken to him and you know whether he has them or not

Does he have them?

I find it ridiculous to pretend that you haven't discussed this, at this fucking point

Does he have them?

Yes, you have, Damien

This is tedious

Come back to me with a serious answer

Now or later

Until then I'm not discussing this, because you are just trying to wear everyone out

Come back to me with an answer, Damien, I have had months of this crap from you and I am no longer interested

I also half-suspect that you are trying to get me to ask you explicitly to ask him, so that you can call that indirect contact and a bail violation - this is ridiculous, you have been promising since June 26th to get those messages from him - indeed you said you were curious yourself (as a fucking amnesiac 🙄🙄) to see what you discussed

OK, you have had ample time to discuss this with Oli on Instagram. Oli has blocked me there, but I am willing to wager that anyone here who is friends with him on there will see that his last active time aligns with Damien's activity here, because obviously they are in close contact and have always been during Damien's arguments with me. I regard Damien as essentially a proxy for Oli here. So, Damien, can you tell me, for starters, whether Oli has deleted his copy of your conversation from May 27-28th or whether he has not? We are obviously going to know by January at the very latest, since we have a preservation order in place (but the court/OIC gets them until the trial, not us). Maybe we can get a headstart on that process.

I appreciate that this is uncomfortable for you and Oli, maybe suicidally uncomfortable, but you chose to do this to me, and at that point it became a question of whether it falls on your heads or on mine, and I don't think it should fall on mine.

That is your online/offline status on Instagram, which I treat as usually an indicator of when you're talking (or conspiring, if you will) with Oli.

So: does he have the messages, or does he not?

You are plainly in touch, so you will know.

Please answer me with an answer, not with mock-indignation about my seeing when you're online.

I am tired of the mock-indignation-about-this-or-that routine.

Time to answer.

No, Damien, answer, please.

Does he have the messages?

Great. Does he have the messages?

You came to me about an hour ago saying he was suicidal. You presumably were told this by him. You are therefore in conversation. Does he have the messages? I am absolutely not going to bloody stop, Damien. Does he have them?

You have promised for months to show me these 'very sus' messages, and I think it is time to cut the crap.

Yes or no? He has them or he doesn't?

Does he have the messages, Damien, or does he not?

This is getting very boring.

Damien. Enough.

Let me fucking think about how you could possibly come to know......

I am not playing this stupid fucking game where you try to get me to commit a fucking bail violation

USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN, DAMIEN

AND ANSWER MY FUCKING QUESTION

i will give you a few minutes to think

Small fucking wonder it is, Damien

Do you think it was upsetting for me when you had me prosecuted, arrested three times, and charged with things I didn't do? Do you think it was upsetting when you tormented me for several months and insulted me in front of our friends?

I am glad you're upset - that is called shame, and it is a moral emotion

It is what stops people from doing appalling things like this

Usually

Anyway, I am going to guess that probably the most likely answer is that he deleted his copy of the messages when you did - is that wrong? And did he develop complete amnesia too, at the same time you did, Damien?

Why don't you just tell me and everyone the truth, because I don't think you are getting any benefit of any doubt at this point

The truth, please, Damien, about your conversation that night.

Why did Oli give a false account that you could have contradicted, and why did you not contradict it for months, and plainly intended never to?

You are asking me to believe this is a coincidence

And that it's a coincidence that you both deleted your messages from that night

And both developed complete amnesia about the conversation that you had

There is no serious doubt here

Please explain why you did what you did

I think that is the most likely hypothesis, and you haven't corrected it, and I can't be bothered to explain to you the concept of asking

This is ridiculous, Damien, stop behaving this way

You are not convincing anyone

Tell me the truth, now

Enough, Damien

The truth

Has he deleted his messages? Am I right about that?

YES

YES I AM

GOOD

YOU GOT THAT

fucking brilliant

we're making progress here!

Has he deleted his messages, Damien?

enough crap - answer

Has he deleted his messages?

Has he deleted his messages?

Has he deleted his messages?

Has he deleted his messages?

Has he deleted his messages?

Has he deleted his messages?

No more fucking squirming out of this, Damien, enough

Has he deleted his messages?

I have been doing this for FUCKING MONTHS

ANSWER ME

NOW

Has he deleted his messages?

Ugh, ok, fine, one sec

Sure

I will send you a link

Give me one sec to dash to the bathroom and make a cup of tea - actually maybe 5 mins or so

I won't be much longer - 5-7 mins

https://us06web.zoom.us/j/89795376728?pwd=Y9i1kKOA4ub6mcOMIDvtvunDzlF1Mo.1

I don't envision anyone else wanting terribly to join, but am posting here in case it ends up being evidentially relevant in any way (I think Zoom probably embeds the meeting ID in the raw recording, which has been relevant in the past)

Damien is just hoping to delay, and I am not doing that

[Video]

Sorry, here's the bit after he actually joins

[Video]

I am not doing this, Damien, you need to answer me

Has Oli deleted his messages, yes or no?

If you don't know, find out and come back and answer me in short order

And for what it's worth, it is fucking obvious that you remember what you discussed, and it is also fucking obvious that you have been closely corresponding with Oli:

You told me maybe half an hour ago that you hadn't spoken to him in a week

You told me about 10 minutes before that that he was suicidal

How did you figure that one out? Fucking telepathy?

Give me a straight answer, Damien, the delays have gone on ten times longer than fucking enough

And I'm sorry if Oli is upset - maybe I shouldn't be sorry, but I love him and I never like seeing him upset

As I said to you last night

but he got himself into this mess - actually, no, you both got yourselves into it, and you weren't anywhere near this upset when it was me who was going to have to bear the cost of your and his choices, were you? no, you were mocking me - so I think pity is a bit of a tall order right now

again, if you decide to kill yourself I would appreciate it if you let me know first so that I know to stop chasing you

and I don't want him to kill himself, for whatever fucking reason, Damien, but you need to answer me and you need to explain yourself, and himself

could you answer first, if possible?

has he deleted his messages?

and what did you agree that night?

you obviously remember what you discussed - can we stop pretending to be idiots?

no, not wow after the last few months, Damien, I don't give a fuck about your continued life beyond the point where you answer my fucking questions

which is now

so answer them

what did you discuss?

and has he deleted his copy?

Damien, I am not going to keep asking, and I should not have had to ask this many times

please kindly ANSWER

has he deleted his copy of the messages in which you conspired to make false reports to the police to have me prosecuted?

and conspired that you would not contradict them and would not attend court and bear true witness

and maybe that you would bear false witness if made to attend, I don't know

but clearly he gave an account that he knew you wouldn't contradict despite being able and uniquely well placed to do so, and indeed you did not contradict that account until about 3am on Monday morning under ten tons of social and evidential pressure

so you are now going to stop this disgrace and you are going to explain yourself

has he, to begin with, deleted his copy of those messages?

has he deleted his copy of those messages, Damien?

has he deleted his copy of those messages, again, Damien?

has Oli deleted his copy of those messages? i am sick of this shit, you will answer me

this is profoundly unimpressive, this performance, and I have no time for it - frankly you have wasted enough of my time and everyone's

I may not know for sure what the answer to that specific question is, but I think everyone knows for sure what has happened here and what you and Oli have done

and I don't really care for this performance, Damien, so I think you should stop disgracing yourself

has Oli deleted his copy of those messages, yes or no?

has Oli deleted his copy of those messages?

has Oli deleted his copy of the messages in which you conspired to pervert justice to have me wrongly imprisoned so that I wouldn't tell @Sam Cherny that Oli had cheated on him with me for two years, yes or no?

yes or no, Damien

you're not going to answer, are you?

ok I guess that's not exactly a brilliant prediction, haha

fairly obvious at this point

right, Damien, this is getting exhausting

what do you think I or anyone is going to conclude when you can't answer these questions?

I don't have time for this disgraceful rubbish, Damien, and I think you owe me an explanation

you will give it sooner or later

if you want to disgrace yourself further in front of everyone you know first, be my guest, but it feels pretty stupid to me

has Oli deleted his copy, and will you tell me what actually happened and what you obviously agreed?

it is very clear roughly what you discussed and agreed, but I want to know exactly when and how and why

and I want an apology, ideally

I don't think that is too much to ask

so answer me

now

as you have promised to

for months

ANSWER

DO I MAKE MYSELF UNDERSTOOD?

christ

enough of this crap

ANSWER MY QUESTIONS, DAMIEN, NOW

have you both deleted your copies of your conversation that night?

DO NOT FUCKING CONDESCEND TO ME, YOU RAT

ANSWER THE QUESTION

do i need to bring out fucking weird unicode characters to ask this?

because I will

🄰🄽🅂🅆🄴🅁 🄼🅈 🅀🅄🄴🅂🅃🄸🄾🄽 🄽🄾🅆

₳₦₴₩ɆⱤ ₥Ɏ QɄɆ₴₮łØ₦ ₦Ø₩

𝒜𝒩𝒮𝒲ℰℛ

𝕙𝕒𝕧𝕖 𝕪𝕠𝕦 𝕓𝕠𝕥𝕙 𝕕𝕖𝕝𝕖𝕥𝕖𝕕 𝕪𝕠𝕦𝕣 𝕔𝕠𝕡𝕚𝕖𝕤 𝕠𝕗 𝕪𝕠𝕦𝕣 𝕔𝕠𝕟𝕧𝕖𝕣𝕤𝕒𝕥𝕚𝕠𝕟 𝕗𝕣𝕠𝕞 𝕥𝕙𝕒𝕥 𝕟𝕚𝕘𝕙𝕥?

oh shut the fuck up

answer

the next words out of your mouth had better be an answer to my FUCKING QUESTION

DAMIEN

SO HELP ME GOD

HAVE YOU BOTH DELETED YOUR COPIES OF THAT CONVERSATION?

WHAT DID YOU AGREE?

AND WHY DID YOU THINK THIS WAS IN ANY WAY OK?

I am not humouring your inane fucking threats, and I think you should be ashamed of continuing to make them

so answer me

i am tired, and i should not have had to ask so many times

if you're refusing to answer, say so

and stop wasting my fucking time

i am sick of this shit, Damien, absolutely sick of it

answer my question

have you both deleted those messages from both your accounts?

no more delay, no more threats, no more crap

answer

either you have both deleted them, or you should be able to provide a recording from his end of what was discussed

it is very obvious that you are not willing to say or do either

and what does that mean?

I think it is quite obvious what it means

Damien

and you weren't crying your eyes out when it was going to be me instead of you

i assure you you weren't - i can well remember it

so please FUCKING ANSWER ME

is that the beginning of an answer or is it just more threatening? i can't quite tell which you mean

if you answer, i will stop shouting

christ

but it shouldn't have been this fucking hard

i am willing to extend moral regard in exchange for even the beginnings of moral behaviour

you mean he deleted his copy?

oh for christ's sake

this is pathetic

stop it now, Damien, the trick doesn't work any more

either give me an answer or else you plainly don't have one that you can bear to give

you tell me you're crying, you tell me Oli is suicidal, and you tell me you can't give me an answer

I know perfectly well what that means and everyone else does

if you don't want to particularise it, fine, that's probably legally sensible, in the way in which being a cunt is often legally sensible

it's not morally decent, of course

yeah, well, bad luck

sorry

i take it you're refusing to answer

let's call it a day

i think it is pretty bleeding obvious now

thanks, Damien, for that, and it was a pleasure extracting minimal answers from you by enormous effort over several months in exchange for no decency or moral accountability or shame whatsoever

and please make sure Oli is ok, because he is precious and i love him

he makes safe noises when he feels safe, like happy gurgles

not sure he is likely to be making safe noises now, but still

thanks for doing this to yourself and him, Damien, for the sake of money